Oral history interview with Robert Ottokar Lindneux, 1964 Nov. 14

Transcript

Preface

The following oral history transcript is the result of a recorded interview with Robert Ottokar Lindneux on November 14, 1964. The interview took place in Denver, Colorado, and was conducted by Sylvia Glidden Loomis for the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution. This interview is part of the Archives of American Art's New Deal and the Arts project.

The original transcript was edited. In 2022 the Archives retranscribed the original audio and attempted to create a verbatim transcript. Additional information from the original transcript has been added in brackets and given an –Ed. attribution. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability by the Archives of American Art. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose.

Interview

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  This is an interview with Mr. Robert Lindneux, 1325 Madison Street, Denver, Colorado, on November 14, 1964. The interviewer is Mrs. Sylvia Loomis of the Santa Fe office of the Archives of American Art, and the main subject to be discussed will be Mr. Lindneux's participation in the Federal Art Projects during the 1930s and '40s. But first, Mr. Lindneux, would you tell us something about yourself—where you were born and when, and where you received your art education?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, I was born on the 11th of December 1871.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  A long time ago.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That's a while ago, yes. And—

SYLVIA LOOMIS: Where? What—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  In New York, on Canal Street—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —if you're acquainted with New York.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes, I am. I am. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Where did you go to school—art school?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I didn't.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. You're self-taught?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I'll tell you about this. I—my ancestors were Swiss. That is, originally, my great-grandfather—did you want to hear this?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes, I do. It's fine.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  My great-grandfather was an officer in Napoleon's army. And when Napoleon met his Waterloo in 1815, the—a great many—most of the army, especially the officers, were disbanded. And they sought different places through—and left France. My great-grandfather went to Bern, Switzerland when my grandfather was nine—eight years old. And my father, Guillon [ph]—you parle français?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  No.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  No?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Sorry.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  My father, Guillon Francois Lindneux [ph]. Lind-neux [ph].

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Lind-neur [ph].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  My accent isn't very good. [They laugh.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  He was born in Bern, Switzerland. And my mother was Marcella Roberta Fuchon, born—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  How is that spelled?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  F-U-C-H-O-N.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Marcella—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Roberta.

[Cross talk.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  [Inaudible.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And born in Lyon.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  In southern France. And they were in the silk business. Lyon was a great silk center, and my father met my mother when—in his travels, collecting raw silk.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And well, I wouldn't go any more than that.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  When did they come to America?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Nine—1862.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And the reason that they came to America: my father thought it was a better chances for the silk business in America than in Switzerland.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. Well, when did you come to Colorado?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  When did I come?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, there's a story.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  They—I came—when the Spanish-American War broke out, I was working for a Mr. Collins [ph] in London, on Oxford Street.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

[00:05:14]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he persuaded me—I was restoring paintings that had been damaged.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And when—of course, the London papers were full of the Spanish-American War. And when they sunk the battleship Maine—I presume you know this.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he said, I'll say, you ought to go back to your country and enlist in the army. That's a little British [laughs].

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  A little Cockney, huh?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he said, It'd be—he said, You're a good man, he says, but he said, I'd rather have you serve your country and go back. Well, there's one little thing that entered into it, and that was not having sufficient money for my passage across the country and to—back to America. I—well, he paid me off, and I put all my stuff together, and I was, at the time, rooming or boarding with a family named Wilson. And I left everything that I didn't think I needed with the Wilson family—put it in a box. And then from there, I went to Liverpool. And then, from Liverpool, I went across the Mersey River to Birkenhead. And I was going to—since I had no money, or very little—I went to visit with—or interviewed, rather, different captains from the cattle boats.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I wanted to work my way over, back to this country, on a cattle boat.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. What year was this?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That was in—let's see—'96. That was in 1896. And while I was searching for a berth on a cattle boat, I had a room in a small waterfront hotel. And while I was away, that little hotel took fire.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I lost everything I had except what I had on my back.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, dear.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Consequently, all my papers, photographs, and everything I possessed burned up.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Dear.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I tried to get into the little hotel, but the bobbies—that's British policemen—and the firemen wouldn't allow me to go in there to rescue what I could. Well, there I—when—everything was burned up—my papers and everything that I had, except, as I said, what I had on my back. So, I went to see one captain, Mr. Ferguson [ph]—he's a Scotsman. [Laughs.]

[00:10:03]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I told him my story. He said, Well, he said, We are about to sail to America in a couple of days in a cattle boat. But he took pity on me, and he says, Well, you can stay right here on the boat, on board a boat. And he told me, You go and see Mr. Tate [ph]—is an Englishman. He was the first mate. And so, I went to where the boat—cattle boat was berthed. I went to see Mr. Tate [ph]—Englishmen, and strictly English.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I told him that Mr. Ferguson [ph] told me to talk to you about taking me on, on the passage to America, to work my way back to this country. He said, All right, buddy. He says, You can take off your coat and you can get to work. [They laugh.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Right away. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, it took over three weeks to cross the ocean on a cattle boat. And when we landed, Tate [ph] told me—he says, You go up on the pier and the cattle will come up. They were full-blooded cattle—that is, Guernseys and Jerseys—full-blooded cattle, to come to this country. He said, You go up and watch, that the cattle go—direct them to the cattle corrals. And I stood up there, watching the cattle go through the corral, and I threw down my stick that he had me to direct the cattle. And Mr. Tate [ph] went down in—aboard the ship, downstairs. And I thought to myself, What's the use? I'm not interested in that. So, I threw down the stick and beat it.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. [They laugh.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  You know what that means.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I kept myself between the cattle barn and the boat, see—that kept the cattle barn between me and the boat. So, I made my way over to the ferry and went to New York, with the idea of looking up a recruiting office to enlist in the Spanish-American War. Well, the Spanish-American War did not last very long. And there was a recruiting office in—City Hall Square, wasn't it?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  I guess that's what they called it.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, anyhow, I went there, and the recruiting officer was very nice, and I told him I wanted to enlist—the Spanish-American War. He says, Buddy, you're too late.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  The war is over. [They laugh.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, really? Oh, dear.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, the war being over, he said, You look to be in good health, he says. Why don't you enlist, anyhow?  I says, I don't want to make my career a military one.

[00:15:00]

And he said, Well, we need boys like you. I was but a youngster, then. Now, that was in 1898—the Spanish-American War. But the—the—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Maine.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  But the Maine was sunk on the 15th of February, and that's how the Spanish-American War started.

SYLIVA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, I didn't know what to do, since I couldn't enlist. And I was talkin' to a man—and there were some benches down on the square, there—City Hall Square, was it?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  I think that's what they called it. Park Row? Lower Park Row—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Park Row, yeah. There was a man sitting on the bench, and I sat down alongside him, and we got to talking. He said—I told him I didn't know just what to do. He says, Why don't you go to Boston? And he says, Boston, I'm—that's my hometown. He says, You ought to go to Boston. So, cut the long story short, I panhandled my way to Boston. And—but in the meantime, I had some—a money belt with some English money. And when I landed—or left the recruiting office, I went to a bank down on Park Row, and I—well, I got out my money belt and my English money I had, and smoothed myself up. I looked like the devil. [They laugh.] And changed my money—English money I had to my—to American money. Well, then, I panhandled my way to Boston. Well, I don't want to go into—

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  No, and that's what I'm thinking—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, so—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And this—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  How long were you in Boston?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  —how long were you in Boston?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  How long were you in Boston, before you came out west?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, I went to Boston and I—well, I might tell you this: I went down a street and I saw, in a grocery store, some apples. And that was to be my lunch. I went in and there was a young fellow there, and I said, Say, buddy, where can I go to earn enough money for my night's lodging?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  This is going to be a long story [inaudible]—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  —make sure you have—

[Cross talk.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he said, Well, I don't know, but there's the boss. And he came in from the back, a big German. And I told him—he said—he says, You want to work?  I said, Yes, sir.  He says, Bums usually don't want to work. He says, They just want to fill their belly and beat it. [Laughs.]  I says, No.  Now, he said, I'll tell you what to do. You really want to work? Well, take off your coat, and I'll show you what to do. 

[00:19:58]

He took me downstairs in the basement—in the cellar, rather—and that was crammed full of boxes and all stuff like that. He said, You clean up that mess down here. The different crates, he says, throw it out in the yard, or burn them up, or chop them up. And I went—rolled up my sleeves and went to work, and worked there, cleaning that cellar. He said—then, I asked him about earning some money to—for my night's lodging. He says, Don't worry about that, he says. He said, You do your work, and I'll give you your supper and 50¢.  So—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, how long—what happened to your art career during all this time? Well, you were an artist then, weren't you?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yes.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. Well, I'm interested in your art work, you see. What you did as far as painting was concerned, and how you got out here. How you came to Colorado.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Not cleaning the basement, honey.

[Cross talk.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  This grocery man—his name was Herman [ph]. Big German. And he said—he says, Don't worry about looking for a place tonight's lodging. He said, I'll take you to a place up the street, Mrs. O'Neill [ph]. 

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  You don't need—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  She had a boarding house.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Don't go into so much detail, honey. She wants to know how—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  We want to know about your artwork, you know—when you—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, artwork.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  —and when you came west. Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, he—I had—he asked me, he said, Say, where do you come from? And I said, Well—and, Tell me your story. I said, Well, Mr. Herman [ph]—he told me his name was—he said, Chances are that you don't want to hear that.  Oh, he says, yes. I came over from Germany, and I was dead broke. He says, And I worked my way up. He said, You mean to say you're an artist? I said, Yes.  He says, What do you paint? I told him I paint portraits. He says, You mean to say that you can look at me and paint a picture of me—a picture—paint a picture of me that everybody says, 'Well, that's Fritz Herman [ph]'? 

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I says, I sure can. Well, he said, Well, go up in the bathroom and wash yourself and comb your hair, and we'll have supper, and then, you can tell me all about it.  That's—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  And that is how you started your painting again.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, I'm coming to it.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Well, honey, it—you're just going into so much detail, it—that it—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, to cut this long story short, I painted his portrait and his wife's portrait. And his wife's brother was a butcher, with a big belly and bald headed, and a walrus moustache, and I painted his picture. Well, I worked for him—that was in October, see? I worked for him all winter, and I got enough money together to come to Denver.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, well, good.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And that was in 1899, I came to Denver. Well, I walked all over Denver, and I didn't be nervous [inaudible] city. I thought, Well, now, Denver. You see, it's—I didn't see anything that looked like what I was looking for.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  What were you looking for?

[00:25:09]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Indians—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —dressed in full regalia.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Two-gun men, pioneers. There was nothing. So, I was there about three weeks altogether, and I went to Billings, Montana. That was a regular cow town then. And that was in 18—yeah.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  '99.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, let me see. Well, anyhow, I made—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, that was 1899.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —enough money from this grocery man, and he liked me very much. He paid me $25, If it's good.  He says, If it looks like Fritz, he said, I give you $25. He said, If you're lying to me, he said, I'll take it out of your hide.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. [They laugh.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Well, now, you're in Denver.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And then, we forgot it. [Laughs.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, apparently he liked it.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah. Yeah, he—

[Cross talk.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  He had all these other portraits made.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  —[inaudible] satisfied.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Now, you're in Denver. 1899, you're in Denver, and you were disappointed, so you went up to Billings, Montana.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I went to Billings, Montana.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, did you find your Indians there?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  But that was not in—that was in 18—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  '99. You see, he won't—

[Cross talk.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  1890—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  It's all right. '99?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  '98.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I only stayed about three, four—three weeks. And then— 

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Did you find any Indians up there?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Beg your pardon?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Did you find any Indians?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Not the—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Up in Montana.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yes. Down on Blake [ph] Street. There was a gunman—had a gun store. And there were some Ute Indians hanging around that gun store, and—but the only thing that looked like Indian was a feather stuck in the hat.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  The rest was old clothes. And of course, they had the braids. And oh—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  So, just—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —I said to myself, I don't want to paint those.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  See, they didn't look like Indians, except they had the flat faces, you know, and— 

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, where did you go next, after that? Where did you go next?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  To Billings.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yeah, but after that?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Billings, Montana. I was only in Denver about three weeks, in 1899.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, how long did you stay in Billings?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  In Billings? Well, let's see. This is so sudden.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  [laughs] Yes. Well, where did you after Billings?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, let's see. Well, I worked for Tom Logan [ph]. He—breaking horses. And he used to go into southern Utah and buy up a carload full of mustangs, and he'd pay three dollars a head. And—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Here, wet your whistle.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Good luck to you.

SYLVIA LOOMIS: You, too.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Thank you.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, when did you get back to your painting?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Quite some time—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —after.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  See, I painted all of these at a—1822 portrait bust pictures of the—Herman and—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  You're out west now, dear. You're—forget about the—him. You've done that. You're out west now.

[00:30:20]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I want to know when you did your paintings of the West.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He worked for Tom Logan.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  You made Billings your headquarters.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  No, I'm a little bit ahead of time. I walked up Railroad Avenue in Billings, and I went into a beanery and had my breakfast. And the waiter—there was an old fellow sitting there having his breakfast. And a waiter said, Say, buddy, you don't mind to sit with this old man? He says, No. So, we got to talking, and he told me—the old man—he was a trapper. And old-timer. And he said, Say, I'm going out to—on a trap line, he said, and if you would like to go with me, he said, Have you got any money? I says, Well, not very much.

[Phone rings; side conversation.]

And he said, If you have enough money to buy your grub stake, say—that is all we needed for the trip—he said, I'll take you along. And this is the first experience I have had of coming in contact with real western life.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Now, we went out in October on this trapping trip, and didn't come back until the next year—the following year, in March. And we had 28 coyotes—skins—and muskrats, and mink, and all that. And he paid me my share of—we were supposed to have been partners, you know. And I—well, then, I went to Tom Logan, see? Learned all about horse breaking.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And they didn't break the horses like they do in rodeos, with the—we just gentle—gentled them. Staked them out, and didn't break them like they do in rodeos. Bronco busters.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Nothing like that. And we—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Tell—no one knew you were an artist. No one knew you could paint until—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  —you painted that horse picture.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, I worked—whenever there was a roundup in the spring—that is, a calf roundup—and a beef roundup in the fall—I always offered my services. That is, I got hired. And nobody ever knew that I could paint a stroke. I never told them—well, they didn't ask my name. Some of them did, but the only name that I went by was Shorty Bob.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. [Laughs.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  See? And they never cared about where I came from—that is, in those days.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  That's right. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  But later on, why, they want to know all about you. But in those days, they took you at your face value.

[00:35:01]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I—oh, I painted, made sketches, and they never knew that—the boys I worked with, cowboys—they never—I never told them where I came from, or—because they wouldn't hire an artist to break horses.

SYLVIA LOOMIS: [Laughs.] Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, I'll give you an instance. Tom Logan—I quit him, and got to painting horses. Horses—a horse, looking out of a stable window. I painted one picture in Billings, and when it was finished, I put it in the—they had no art stores in Billings at the time—in a book and stationary store on Second Avenue in Billings. They put the picture on an easel. So, I walked down Railroad Avenue and I met Tom Logan. He says, Hello, Shorty. He says, What are you doing here? Oh, I said—he says, Who you working for? I said, I'm working for myself. 

Working for yourself, he says, What are you doing? He says, You got a string of horses?  I says, No, no. I said, I'm painting. "Painting? What do you mean, painting? You mean house painting?"  He didn't know I could paint. And I said, Come on, Tom. I'll show you a piece of my work. So, I took him into the book and stationary store, and there was my horse picture on an easel. And he says, You mean to say you did that? I says, I sure did, Tom.  He says, I think you're a liar.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh? [They laugh.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  He walked over, and [inaudible] of course, the signature. ]. He says, Is that your name? I says, Sure is. Well, he says, I never knew your name except 'Shorty Bob. [Laughs.] And well, he says, I'll be damned, he said, if I didn't hire an artist to break horses for me.  [They laugh.] Well—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  It was a surprise to him.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Beg your pardon?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I said it was a surprise, wasn't it?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah. And I worked for Tom Logan for some time, and then I quit him and I went on different roundups, and painted Indians. Went on the Crow Reservation and painted Indians.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, I've seen some of your Indian paintings at the museum. I saw some of these paintings that you did.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah—

[Cross talk.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah. [Inaudible.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Well, when did you come back to Denver?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  When did we?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, that was in 1916. While in the meantime, he was acquainted with Charlie Russell. Those are the [inaudible]—

[Cross talk.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, that's—no, that's fine.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh— 

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He became acquainted with Charlie Russell, and Charlie Russell recommended his going back to New York on account of his horse paintings.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Now, we got it.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  It—I went to Billings—was in Billings, painting. And there's a cowboy that I was on the roundup with. He says, Say, do you know Charlie Russell? I says, No, no. I've heard of him. I had never met him. Well, he says, his—

[Side conversation.]

Something is going to happen.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  [Inaudible.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, [inaudible]—

[Cross talk.]

[00:40:00]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  All right.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Okay. You haven't heard any [inaudible]?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah, this cowboy told me, Well, he said, Charlie Russell—a cowboy artist—he's over there in the Northern—Great Northern Hotel. So, I went over there. I looked all around, and I—now, that was in 1902.

[Side conversation.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  See? And I looked all around, and I didn't see anybody that looked like a cowboy. I said to myself, I know. I went to the bar room. Sure enough—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  There he was, huh?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —there was Charlie Russell, talking to two cattlemen, see? And he looked at me, and I looked at him. Well, they concluded their talk, and they said, Well, so long, Charlie. So, he—they left. And when they had gone, I went over. I said, You're Charlie Russell.  He says, You betcha. [Laughs.].  And then, we got to talking—talking western. He told me—what I was painting. Oh, I said, I painted Crow Indians, and all kinds of western scenes.  Well, he says, you're too late. You're at least two years—20 years too late. The Old West is no more. And so, well, we got a—had to cut it short because Mrs. Russell came to the door of the bar room, and she said, I thought you were here. So, how—Charlie introduced me to Mamie [ph]—that is, Mrs. Russell. And—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He called her Mamie, but her name was Nancy.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  He said, This is Shorty Bob—I don't know his last name.  He said, That's Shorty Bob. He wants to know some—he wants to paint Indian pictures.  Well, he—she didn't care about that. She says, Come on, she says, Charlie, you're late as it is, and she took him away. He said, Say, Shorty, I'm building a cabin—a log cabin next year, up in Great Falls.  That's his home town, see? And he says, When you're up that way, he says, I wish you'd stop in. Well, I said, Charlie, I would. And as soon as—he went and I got very busy painting. Had to make money. And in 1904, I was painting some of those animal pictures—American mammals, from the Arctic Circle to Mexico. And I went up in the—Alberta, Lake Louise country, to make sketches of the animals through the binoculars.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And on my way back to—on my way back, I stopped in Great Falls, and I went to see Charlie Russell in his log cabin studio. And I came in, knocked. He was painting an Indian picture. So, he had a big arm pallet. You know what an arm pallet is?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

[00:45:03]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Big thing. My pallet is only nine by 13 inches, mahogany. And we got to talking. He showed me a whole box full of tube paints. I says, What do you have all these tubes for? Well, he said, I'll tell you, Shorty. I bought all the tubes to paint that I thought I could use. Oh. Well, then, I began to tell him that—and then, I said, I don't see why you have such a big pallet. I—it heats your paint on it, dry it up and all that. I said, I do all my painting with only 10 colors.  He said, You mean to say that you get all these fine tints with 10 colors?  I says, That's all. He said, I wish that you would show me how you use those 10 colors and get all these fine tints. Oh, I said, That's all right. I said, I'd be—gladly show you. 

I went next—then, Nancy called him to lunch, and I didn't see him until the next day. And I had brought my painting paraphernalia, laid out my colors, and he sat alongside of me and watched what I did. And—I'll show you. [Gets up and brings back picture.] He painted this picture.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  How—there is—when I came in, that's what he was doing. And then, he showed me his horses.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That's Charlie Russell.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And then, that's myself and Charlie. And—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yeah. Were these just pencil sketches?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Pencil sketches.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Pencil, yes.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And that's a little picture we painted—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —that I painted, and where I showed him all these delicate colors and how I mixed the paints.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, my.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  But Charlie made the drawing.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And this is where I'm painting this—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —little picture.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. And then, he's watching you.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  But Charlie Russell made the drawing. You did the painting.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  What? No, I did the painting.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes, on this—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  But—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Show him the colors.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —I'm getting a little ahead.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  This is fine.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he said, Shorty, I'm going to get a smaller canvas, and I sketch out something, and you can paint it.  So, he sketched out this, and I painted this.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  And that picture is now owned by—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  By—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  —W. B. Davis—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  —Duncan, Oklahoma.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Duncan, Oklahoma.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I was just going to ask whatever happened to it—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  —because that's—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  In 1911—oh, I'm ahead again.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  That's all right.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I had just finished—when I had that finished, he says, Shorty, you ought to take your stuff to New York.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he said, Your horses are wonderful.  He says, You'd make a big hit if you'd take your horse pictures to New York. Well, I did.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  You did. Good.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I got a—opened a small studio in Brooklyn.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Pouch [ph] Mansion. [Robert Lindneux laughs.]  And that's where I met him.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, is that right?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah [laughs].

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  I was taking music lessons.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he—so, he had a—1911, he had his first one-man showing of his pictures on Fifth Avenue, New York.

[00:50:21]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Folsom Gallery [ph].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  So, he wrote me a note, Come on over and see me.  So, I went over and see him, and I noticed a big change in his work.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.  Did he take care your colors?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  The colors.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yes. And I said, Charlie—he said, I wanted to take you over to Brooklyn and show you my studio. So, he had given up drinking, and he just limited himself, one or two—[red eye (ph)]. [Laughs.]

[Cross talk.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  [Inaudible.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And so, Charlie got his hat, and he says, I'm going out with Shorty.  And she said, Now, you remember—he says, Okay. [Laughs.]  You—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Remember to—mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I got on a streetcar, and I took him to my studio in Brooklyn, on Clinton Avenue. And he was surprised at my horse pictures. Now, there's my studio in Brooklyn. And I had this horse picture called The Foster Mother. 

Excuse me. I'm leaking. [They laugh.] And the—he stood there in my studio and looked all around, and he said, You've got some good stuff. I says, Charlie, I tell you, I says, I would like to make a color sketch of you while you're over here. I says, I'll take you back and—to New York. And he says—I said, We go downstairs in the sunlight, and I want to make a color study of you. He says, All right, Shorty. So, we went downstairs and I painted this picture.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. I wondered if that—ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That's Charlie Russell. And usually, he used to wear his hat back of his head. And the sun was shining in his eyes. He pulled down the hat, and that's the way I painted him.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  This is now owned by a Mr. Aracino [ph], the—on Market Street.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Was that in Denver?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  The owner of the Seattle Fish Company.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And when was—that wasn't that time.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  What, dear?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That was in 1911.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I was to—now, this is where I'm painting— 

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  That little picture.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —this little picture, see.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And Charlie Russell is—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Watching.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —watching me while I was painting. And—oh, I see. Then, I was to paint—it's—Johnny Baker [ph].

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  No, no, that was later, dear. That was after we were married. We weren't married until 1916.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That was in 19—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  1922, 1925. I was—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  1921.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  That you painted Buffalo Bill?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah. Well, anyhow, you had become dissatisfied back east, and decided to come west again.

After Charlie Russell was back there to see you. Will this interfere?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  No, that's fine.

[Cross talk.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah.

[00:55:05]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  You can help fill in the blanks.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes, and—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  —you came west again, and decided to stay west.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And when was that?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Well, you must have come west, then, about 1914, wasn't it?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  No, '15.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Oh, '15? Oh, yeah, '15. Because we were married, and I came out to—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  The war.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  —[inaudible] city to get married, in '16.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  1914, the war started.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah, the—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. And did you come back to Denver then?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah.   

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Have you—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He came back to Denver, and then, he ambled back up to Montana, because we were married in Miles City, Montana.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  A little cow town.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yes, yes.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  And then, he took up, in earnest, his western painting. He didn't care for that eastern stuff, at all. And we've been out here ever since.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  You have.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  We never did go back to live. We've gone back to visit, but never to live.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah. And then, you—we made all of Montana and all of Wyoming, and when we struck Denver, I said, If I had to live west, I could live in Denver. I like Denver. So, that's how we come to stay.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And do you know—do you remember when that was, that you finally came to Den—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  In 1918, 1919. That—yeah, 1919.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  This is where I painted a Buffalo Bill picture in public, and had, on the average of, 150 people watching me paint every day—        

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —while I was—every stroke of it painted, in Daniels & Fishers.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  That's here in Denver?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  At the [inaudible]—

[Cross talk.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  The old Daniels & Fishers.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, not the new one. Not the one that is now.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And that was in 1920—

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  '21, honey.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  [Inaudible] sketches, Bryce Canyon.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And this is how I used to paint my small studies, of which I painted a larger one.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. This is what you did in the field, and—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, outdoors. Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  —then, you'd—

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Then, in the studio, he made larger ones.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Rosebud Lake country, up in Montana.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Zuni. Hopis.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes. You got down into Arizona—

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah, [inaudible]—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  —and New Mexico, too.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He [inaudible]—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  This is how I used to do my work—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —in—up in Alberta. And I used the binoculars and hid behind the rock, and made the sketches of the animals from nature—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —through the binoculars.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. Well, it's interesting that you have these pictures of yourself—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  —doing the—doing your paintings.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  This is where I'm accepted, or welcomed by the Indians in—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Pine Ridge. Pine Ridge.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Pine Ridge.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  What kind of Indians?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Sioux.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Sioux. Oh, yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  When—I'll tell you this: the—I completed this Buffalo Bill picture in 1922, and it was—it still on exhibition in Buffalo Bill Museum, in Cody.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  In—

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Up at Lookout—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —Lookout Mountain. And those Oglala Sioux Indians, they would come every year to the Frontier celebration in Cheyenne. Frontier celebration.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And they always used to come up to Buffalo Bill's grave and have a powwow there. And then, later, would go into [inaudible] teepee and look around, and saw my big Buffalo Bill picture, which is eight by 10 feet.

[01:00:07]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I can see from this it's a large one.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah. Yeah, those are dimensions. And they talked among themselves, looked at it—[Vaste, Vaste. Vaste –Ed.] means good.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And Frank Goings was their interpreter. And he said, "Say, Shorty"—before they would go to Cheyenne to the Frontier celebration, they would have an Indian village in Overland Park. And they invited me to visit them. I said [inaudible] to Frank Goings, the interpreter. His mother was a full-blood Sioux, and his father was a Negro.  

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he spoke good English and good Sioux.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  [Inaudible.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I says, Frank, what they want me to have come there—over and visit them? Oh, he said, I think they want to adopt you.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh [laughs].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, I said—I went over there, and they dressed themselves up, as you see in there.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And they had the chiefs—they had a committee, and select a name for me. And my Indian name is [Haw-Ton-Ton-Ka-Wandi-Waste-Napse-oni-Tea-Wapi –Ed.]. [. . . –Ed.]  And after it was over, they invited me up to the reservation.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And this is where I'm welcomed by Good Lance, you see—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Was their reservation at Pine Ridge?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That was Pine Ridge.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And that—he lived at Wounded Knee Creek.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. That was where that famous battle—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  —was, wasn't it, Wounded Knee? Was that—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, it was a massacre.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  The massacre. Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Was that Custer's? Was that Custer's?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  No, that was before.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Before Custer's.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Later than—that was in 1890.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That Wounded Knee Creek.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see, oh.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  That's all one name, honey.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  It's all one name [laughs]. Well, I'm glad to have you write it down.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That was in 1890.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  1890 was—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  The Custer fight was on the 22nd of—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  [Inaudible.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  We'll cut this off for a minute and turn the tape over on the other side, because there are some other questions I want to ask you.

[END OF TRACK AAA_lindne64_229_m.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  This is a continuation of the tape on the other side of the Robert Lindneux.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS: And so, I'm going to ask you now, how you came to paint the—do the paintings that are down at the state museum, the historic society? Could you tell us about that?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, Dr. Haven [ph] told me—he called for me—and I came back from Chicago.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  In what year?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he wanted me to paint Beecher—no, not the Beecher Island battle, but the Thornburgh fight.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  What year was this?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That was in 18—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  No, no.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —79

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  No, no. 1935.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I meant when did you do the paintings? What year was it?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That was in '35.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  1935? Yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Because in '36-37, I went to Europe.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Well, what were some of the—what were these paintings that you did at the state museum?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  State museum?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, there was Chiquita [ph].

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. What was that? Was that an Indian?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah. Sioux Indian.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  What—I've forgotten his name—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Urey [ph]?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Urey [ph].

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Urey [ph].

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Chiquita [ph] was his wife.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Uh-huh [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I painted both of these pictures, and Little Raven.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And then I painted the Thornburgh fight, and the Sand Creek fight. That's down there. That's what you saw.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. Those are the ones I saw. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  See?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Where did you get your information about these fights so that you could paint them so realistically?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, I'm a great student.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I laid in my bed, nights—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —and studied all of that when I couldn't sleep.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  And then he went over the ground, too.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And if I came to certain spots that I—helped me for the painting—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —I quick made a sketch of it.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Got up out of bed.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  But you also went over the ground.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I'm a little hard of hearing.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  It's all right.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  You also went over the ground, personally.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yes.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Well, tell that.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, that's getting too long.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  No, no. Tell them.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  No, no. That's all right. This is part we're particularly interested in—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, that's the part she wants.

[Cross talk.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  —you see, are the paintings that were done under the Federal Art Projects, you see.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And this was one of them.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah. That's it.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  So, you tell us as much as you can about how you came to paint these.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And Jim Harvey—we went to Sand Creek fight.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And also, the Thornburgh fight.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Where was that? What state?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  The White River.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  In Colorado? In Colorado?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yes.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  They're both in Colorado.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, I see. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Both in Colorado, yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  So, that's part of the history of the state, then, isn't it?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yes.

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, that's why Dr. Haven [ph] wanted them illustrated, see?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Could you tell [phone rings] me a little bit about that—the Thornburgh Massacre? About the history of that? I thought that was such an interesting painting. [Robert Lindneux laughs.] It looked as though the—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  In the first place—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Who massacred who?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —the Meeker—the—Meeker was the agent and Meeker wanted to have those Ute Indians become farmers.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

[00:05:00]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And—but they didn't want to be farmers. And he was the agent.  Meeker. And so, he tried to force them to become farmers, see? At the Ute reservation.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And they killed him.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Massacred him.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. And how many troops were involved in that? How many troops?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  How many troops?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. I saw in that painting—I thought I saw a lot of soldiers. Weren't there some soldiers in that?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, no Thornburgh.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes, well that was the one I was talking about. The Thornburgh Massacre. It looked like there was some—a group of soldiers came in and were shooting the Indians in this Indian village.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And then the Indians were shooting back, and I didn't know who massacred who. But it's not important. I just thought if you remembered that it'd be interesting. What about some of the other paintings you did for the state museum? Some of the other paintings?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, there's the—what you saw down there is the Beecher Island battle.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Oh, well, maybe that was the one I saw. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  But I painted that before '35.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, I see. It wasn't—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  1935.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Then I saw they have a display of your studio and the things that were in your studio down in the basement.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  When did you give that to the historical society?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  To the museum?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, 1960, I think.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  That was—was that when you retired?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I retired several times.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. I see.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Not only that, but I retired every night. [They laugh.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, I see you're still painting, though. What is—what is the subject of this painting? Let's see what this says here [reading from text]: "Charles Goodnight Longhorn Trail Herd. One of the first of the numerous Texas longhorn cattle trails was organized by ex-Texas Ranger, Charles Goodnight, and stockman Oliver Loving in the early 1870s. These leaders from the Palo Pinto country, on the upper Brazos, followed the western trail to the Horsehead Crossing on the Pecos River, wending their way to the northern markets. The country was hot and arid, and after many trials and tribulations, they arrived at their destination, where they sold their cattle." So, this is one of the cattle drives. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, it's very nice. Is it finished, yet? Is it finished?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh yes. It's going to be delivered this noon.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Is that right? Well, it's very nice.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And then what's—oh, this is the next one you're doing. Stagecoach. Oh, that looks like a wild western.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, it is. [Inaudible]—

[Cross talk.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Does he have a commission for this?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  When did I donate that to the museum? '60?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  1960.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  1960.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  It was a very interesting exhibit.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah. Uh-huh [affirmative].

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And it was sort of—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He's getting tired [inaudible]—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. I just want to ask you one more thing, and that is about your studies in Europe.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  We didn't—we skipped that. So, are you too tired to tell me about that?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  No.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  We just have a few—little bit more on the tape.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Just a little bit more. See? You're talking into that all the while.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, would you rather rest a little first?

[Cross talk.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  No.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  No, he—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  All right.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Take a swallow of 7 Up [inaudible]—

[Cross talk.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  No, I'm all right.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, we—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I lost my mother when I was three years old.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I was practically an orphan.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

[00:10:01]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  My father was killed with a run-away team in—when I was five years old.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh dear.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And my father's younger sister, Lucille [ph]—when they came from Switzerland, say in 1862, Lucille was with them.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  She was educated in Bern, Switzerland and was a teacher of languages. The Swiss are great for languages. And she spoke German, French, and Italian.  And also, English.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, she used to give lessons in French to families that could well afford it.  For their children, you know.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I showed a great liking to draw animals, birds. And she used to get me books from the library, and I copied those studies. When she was out teaching, she used to sit me on the floor in the apartment we had.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I was copying those animals.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And the birds. And the different ones who told her, "That boy has talent,' meaning me.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  "You ought to have him have an art education."

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  So, she went to work and hired Matilda Lehman [ph], from Berlin. German, she was an art teacher—drawing teacher. And that—I was nine years old at the time.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Was this in New York?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes.

SILVIA GLIDDEN LOOMIS:  This was in New York?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That was in New York.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And on Canal Street, in New York. And then she was told so often that I ought to be sent to Europe to have [inaudible] academy.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Study art.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, she wrote to Benjamin Vautier, who was a Swiss genre [ph] painter.  And he was a great friend of my father's.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  See?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  She wrote to him and asked him if he—if she would send me over there, if he would look after me, and act as sort of a guardian.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, and that was in 1888.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. How old were you then? Let's see, I know you're—I could figure it out from your age, but—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, I was born in '71.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He was 17.

[Cross talk.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  So, 17, then. Yes, 17.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah, I was 17.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And that was in 1888.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And Benjamin Vautier was a Swiss painter and he opened his studio in Düsseldorf.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That's on the Rhine.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I showed him my drawings of the animals and the birds.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he said, They're very good, but you need correcting.

[00:15:00]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  So, he was instrumental of introducing me to the Kunst Académie in Düsseldorf. To be accepted as a student.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  To the secretary.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Benjamin Vautier.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. We've got that name down.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he acted as my teacher.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  He always corrected my work, and he really sold the first picture I ever painted under—he first sold that picture.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. How old were you when that was—when you sold your first painting?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well, 1888.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  17. Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  But, soon after that, then, that you sold your first one. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And how long did you study at Düsseldorf?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Two years and a half.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. And then what did you do? What did you do after that?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  After that? Benjamin Vautier was instrumental again to introduce me to the secretary of the École des Beaux Arts, in Paris.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I studied there two years.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And then after that, while I was still a student in the École des Beaux Arts, I—Mihály Munkácsy—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —the Hungarian painter. He painted a painting that was exhibited in the salon and measured 52 feet in length.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Goodness.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And 20 feet in height. And I worked under him. He didn't like the first one.  And he worked it all over again. And he had five—he had five Hungarian artists—you know, that was Árpád, the first Hungarian King.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  See? Árpád.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, that was the subject of the painting.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And it was 52 feet in length and 20 feet in height. And five Hungarian artists—and then Kirschbach [ph] was a German—he was born in London—and myself worked under Mihály Munkácsy on this new painting.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That was exhibited in 1903—

1903 in the Paris Salon.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And then I studied one year in the von Stuck Academy in Munich.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  One year.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  [Inaudible.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And then I traveled all over different countries, and I worked under different masters to improve my art.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. I see.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I finally drifted to London.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  That was when you were doing this restoration work, wasn't it?

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah. Yeah.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  When they—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  And then he came back here.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Under—under Collins.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  When you came back to join the Spanish-American War.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah. Yeah, that's—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  That was when you came back to join the Spanish-American War and found it was all over.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, that's right.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Quite a let-down. [Inaudible.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, that—yes, I wanted to get the spelling of [inaudible]—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  There's so much to tell you.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I know. Well, a long life of painting—it's pretty hard to get it all down in just a few minutes. But you've had so many different experiences, I wish I could talk to you for about a week, I think, to take—to get it all in.

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes. Yeah. I [inaudible]—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah. Well, you can stay and live with me. [They laugh.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, this is extremely interesting, and I'm very glad to get this background information.

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Well, we have an awful lot to—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And I would like to know more about your experiences out here in the West. I imagine that would be very interesting.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Have you had any of this written up?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He has written his [inaudible]—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  In my memoirs.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, you do.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And has that been published?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  No.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  No, not yet.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. Well, I hope it is, because—

[00:20:00]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Well, he's hanging on to it.

[Cross talk.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Well—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I want to know all about sheep.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And there was—in Billings—was a bank vice president who had 10,000 sheep. A great many catered to sheep—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah, [inaudible] country.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —up in Montana.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he had five sheep herders and their outfits, and he gave them each 2,000 sheep. And that was—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  How were you involved in that?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He was one of—

SILVIA GLIDDEN LOOMS:  Were you one of the sheep herders?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  No.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I wanted to know all about how they handled the lambing.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  In the springtime.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes, mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX: See?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  So, did you go there to watch them?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Watched them.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I stayed with the Mexican sheep herder and, well, I got into fighting with him and he shot me.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, I saw that scar [in the middle of his forehead –Ed,] and I wondered [they laugh]—it looks as though it might have been kind of serious.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  But he lived to tell the tale.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  He certainly did. He lived a long time afterwards, didn't you?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  The other cowboys—we came in a small hotel from a beef roundup, and of course one of the first things the cowboys did was to—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. Drink. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Hotel. And there was a hotel. The proprietor had a daughter. She was a typical western girl. And I'm not a drinking man. And we sat on the porch, when an Irish redheaded cowboy was stuck on that girl.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he accused me of interfering because he liked her. And he called me a fighting name and shot me.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh—by your ear?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Here. Feel this.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, just nicked you.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Gracious. It's kind of a short—close call wasn't it? [Laughs.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, it was kind of a close call.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  So—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Well, those were kind of wild days, weren't they? [They laugh.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  They were. They've changed.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah. That of course is much later.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. Well, you were—we [inaudible]—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, I had all kinds of fights and experiences.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yeah, I imagine so. Well, there wasn't much law and order out in this part of the country when you first came, was it?

[Cross talk.]

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  No. [Inaudible.] Even when we were first married, honey, it wasn't.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Is that right? It doesn't seem possible does it.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  No, it doesn't.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  There's much to tell you.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I know there is.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I hop from one thing to another, because different incidence crowding in my mind.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Of course. I think you have a remarkable memory for all of this—these dates and names.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He first met—tell when you first met Buffalo Bill.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes. I'd love to hear about that.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  He didn't meet in this country.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I was a student at the Kunst Académie in Düsseldorf. That was in 1889.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I read in the paper that Buffalo Bill was going to have his Wild West Show in Paris in 1889. And that is the year that the Eiffel Tower was built in commemoration of the French Revolution. The French Revolution was in 1789.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Oh yes.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And [laughs] that's the time that Eiffel Tower—or tour Eiffel—was built. And I didn't—I wanted to go to Paris and see the Buffalo Bill show.

[00:25:04]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  But I didn't have much money, so I was rooming with a young fellow who was also a student at the Kunst Académie in Düsseldorf, and he loaned me money for me to take a trip to Paris and see the Buffalo Bill show. Well, when the show was over—when the show was over, I met Buffalo Bill for the first time. And he was so glad that I was an American and took the trouble to come from Düsseldorf to come to see his show.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  To see him. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And that was 1889. In 1889 he had Rosa Bonheur paint a Buffalo Bill picture on his horse, Tucker.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh. And then you—did you meet him again afterwards?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, yes.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  When you came back to this country?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  He was—I met him again in 18—1912.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I painted two portrait studies of him. And I used one portrait study—the outdoor one—in the big painting when I painted Buffalo Bill.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes, well I—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  The big picture.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I wondered if you hadn't done that from life.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  No, he died in '17.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, he did?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Buffalo Bill [inaudible].

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yeah, I wasn't sure about the dates.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 1917, he died here in [inaudible].

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, [inaudible].

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah. We knew—we really knew most of the family. I went around with his daughter.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  [Inaudible] Cody.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  You might like to have this. [Pamphlet about his work. –Ed.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, I would very much. I was going to ask if I couldn't have some sample of your painting.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  This isn't quite correct, but—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, well this will be very valuable to have this, Mr. Lindneux.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  You don't get over to Oklahoma at all, do you?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  No, that's not my territory.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Gilcrease Museum has a wonderful exhibit of his. And the Woolaroc, Frank Phillips' museum, have some wonderful pictures of his.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. Oh. Oh, this is about Rosa Bonheur.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  This is the picture. Here is Rosa Bonheur.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  With—there's Buffalo Bill and—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, there's a picture of you.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  That's myself. And she was this little woman here, who was painting this picture, in 1889.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And Sonny Baker [ph] had me paint this for the Buffalo Bill Museum.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see. Oh, yes.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  And explain why it's—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  The same pose.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  But he wanted him—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  But brought up to date.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, with white hair.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, yes. I see.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  And being older, see?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, see this [inaudible]—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I saw Rosa Bonheur in the grounds there, and she was painting this picture.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  You did?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And I went up to her, showed her my sketches that I made, and she said they were very good. Of course, we talked French. And she lived in Fontainebleau, you see?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes. This is—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And she painted this picture. Rosa Bonheur.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, this is from the Western Horseman, April 1962.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  So, maybe, we can get—find a copy of this.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah, that's the only one he's got.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I don't want to take this, but we would like to—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I have to—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  I think [inaudible] tore that out and gave it to him.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  I have to hop from one thing to another because so many things are crowding in my mind.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  That's right. Well, I can't tell you how grateful I am to you, Mr. Lindneux, for this—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Beg your pardon?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I said, I can't tell you how grateful I am to you for this opportunity to talk with you.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  About your long and distinguished career as an artist.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Only I haven't got enough time.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I know. Well, maybe I can come back sometime—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  —and talk some more with you—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  —about it, because this—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Now, this picture is—

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

[00:30:00]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  —he's going to come here this noon.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And get this picture.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  And where is this going? This painting? Where is this going?

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Mr. Aracino [ph] is—

[Cross talk.]

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I see.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  —buying it for his collection.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  For his own home? For his collection.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Does he have a collection of Mr. Lindneux's—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Oh, yeah, [inaudible]—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  He's got over 50 of my paintings.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  That's what I thought, yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Oh, really?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  And he wants me to paint at least one a year.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  [Inaudible.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  See? Until I kick the bucket.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  [Laughs.] Well, at the rate you're going, I think that's going to be a long time.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well,  it's wonderful you can keep on painting.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  [Inaudible.] This is my next one.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes, the stagecoach. Well, it's—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  This is 1964.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  So, this is this year's.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  And the next one will be '65.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  This'll be—

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  This is going to be next year's, in '65, if I live long enough.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  You will.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Sure you will. You're just going strong. Mm-hmm [affirmative]. [Laughs.]

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  You guarantee that?

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  I will. I'll guarantee that. [They laugh.] I'll come back a year from now and see what the next one is. How about that?

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Oh, shucks.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, thank you and also you Mrs.—

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Well, honey, it was just so nice of you to want to come out.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, I've just enjoyed this more than I can tell you.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  I wish I could get things more correlated.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, I think we've covered the high spots, and that was the important thing.

ROBERT LINDNEUX:  Yeah.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  And if you have any questions, write me and I'd be glad to.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Fine. Well, yes. Well, thank you so much.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes. You have the address.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Yes, I do.

GERTRUDE LINDNEUX:  Yes, so—and I'll be glad to straighten things out.

SYLVIA LOOMIS:  Well, you've been most helpful. I'm grateful to both of you.

[END OF TRACK AAA_lindne64_230_m.]

[END OF INTERVIEW.]