Oral history interview with Anton Blazek, 1965 April 13

Transcript

Preface

The following oral history transcript is the result of a recorded interview with Anton James Blazek on April 13, 1965. The interview took place in Los Angeles, California, and was conducted by Betty Lochrie Hoag McGlynn for the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution. Antoinette Blazek May, Blazek's sister, is also present. This interview is part of the Archives of American Art's New Deal and the Arts project.

The sound quality for this interview is increasingly poor throughout the later part of the second track, leading to an abnormally high number of inaudible sections in that portion of the transcript. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability by the Archives of American Art. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose.

Interview

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —tape recorder broke down and I had to go way downtown to pick it up—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —and get it fixed and I was so afraid you'd think I wasn't coming and go away.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, you know, I thought that it's a good idea to telephone before you come. Because sometimes, you know, when you make an appointment for, say, a—

[Tape stops, restarts.]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Betty Lochrie Hoag on April the 13th, 1965, interviewing the artist Anton Blazek in my own home in Los Angeles. Mr. Blazek has very kindly brought along many examples of his paintings and his ceramics and his sculpture to show me and it's been a great treat this afternoon. He's also brought many things that we can microfilm for the Archives, for which we're most grateful. I would like to check the spelling, first, Mr. Blazek. It's A-N-T-O-N. And do you use a middle initial or name?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, not always. James is the middle name.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And—James?

ANTON BLAZEK:  James, mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And Blazek is spelled—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —B-L-A-Z-E-K.

ANTON BLAZEK:  B-L-A-Z-E-K, mm-hmm [affirmative]. Now—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And there's a better pronunciation.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well—[They laugh.]—if you can say Blazek, I believe I told you over the phone that in the real— in the real pronunciation, the Czech pronunciation it would be Blazek. That would be an accent on the Z—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I see.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —making it Blazek. And with the—without the accent it's Blazek.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Blazek. Good. And before we go on, I want to say that Mr. Blazek's sister, Mrs. May [Antoinette Blazek May], is with us in the living room and we probably will ask her some questions, too. So, it's the third voice that may come into the tape. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Thank you, Mrs. Hoag. It's a great pleasure to have come into your home. It's a very wonderful, warm home and I know it's just loaded with wonderful feeling about art. Because you're a person that has lived art, your mother has painted art, and your son appreciates art, and your husband appreciates art. So, I know that you have spent a wonderful lifetime in art.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, thank you. We certainly have enjoyed the artists. And—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, I'm sure—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —I'm especially delighted to do you today because you're so gifted in so many interesting fields we want to talk about, in ceramics and—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, thank you.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —paintings on aluminum, which you made your own medium and made a place for it in the repertoire of American art. It's most interesting and I hope later you'll tell us about that.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, thank you.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  First of all, I want to ask you where you were born and when. Do you want to tell us?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, uh-huh [affirmative]. I was born in 1902, at Horepnik. That'd be H-O-R-P-E—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  H-O-R—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —no, E. E-P. I'm sorry.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —H-O-R-E-P—

ANTON BLAZEK:  H-O-R-E-P-N-I-K. N-I-K.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And how do you pronounce that?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Horepnik.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Horepnik, Czechoslovakia.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Uh-huh [affirmative]. It has probably an accent, but I don't know. I'm really not as good—[Betty Hoag McGlynn laughs.]—as I should in my own tongue, because we spoke at home. While mother was living, we always spoke the Czech.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And, so that, I was better at it probably.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  You must not have lived there very long, because you have no trace of an accent anymore.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, I think I was a little over four when we came to this country—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —we all came to this country. In 1907, I believe. Came to America. And my father had come the year before, 1906. And it really is amusing in a way because when my father came in 1906 and he had learned that women here, of course, have, sort of, more rights than they do in Europe, he thought of coming back, you know. [Betty Hoag McGlynn laughs.] And my mother wrote and told him. She says, Well, if you do come back, why, we might pass each other on the ocean because—[Betty Hoag McGlynn laughs.]—I'm determined to go to America.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, isn't that wonderful.

ANTON BLAZEK:  So, it was—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  She wanted those rights. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, that's right. Well, you know, he probably sold her a bill of goods—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —and she bought it. And, you know, it's a wonderful thing she did.

ANTON BLAZEK:  We're so thankful, really, you know, that we were able to come to America when we did.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  It was a good time, too—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Because look at the two wars there and, so, it would have been, it would have been—well, I don't know whether we would have been able to live together as we did. We probably would have been separated.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And, of course, we had a wonderful life. That is, my mother lived with us until 1963—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —January the 7th when she did pass on. And—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Was your father an artist too?

ANTON BLAZEK:  No. He was a wonderful cabinetmaker.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. He was a wonderful, gifted man and without any—now my brother, both of my brothers loved water.

[00:05:05]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And my sister's husband, he was a fiend about water. And they got to talking one day about these boats, you know. Just ordinary, small wooden boats—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —you know. Something that they could put a motor on the back of. Well, my father, who's never built a boat prior to that time, and he went out to select the Cyprus wood and everything else. And he did the most magnificent job, honestly—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  For heaven's sakes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —most beautiful job you had ever seen of a—of a boat, just a small boat that size, you know. We used to call them rowboats, but it was larger—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Like buying [ph] furniture.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Uh-huh [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And so, funny thing is, they were out in—out in this waterfront property we had and—

ANTOINETTE BLAZEK MAY:  Chesapeake Bay.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Chesapeake Bay, near the Chesapeake Bay there. And an airplane fell on the back of it one time, and he damaged the back of this one. Of course, it's a long story, but, I mean, it's not really important.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well did they ever try to put these on the market or was it just for their own enjoyment?

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, just for their own enjoyment. Uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And then when you came to America, you did not come directly to California.

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, we came to Baltimore, Maryland.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  We lived there until 1930.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh. That's a long time.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And Ms. Minnie Dougherty [ph], I remember—when I was in the second grade I used to go—she got me to go around to the different classrooms and draw on the blackboard, you know—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —at different times of the season.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Easter time and Christmas time. And, so, she used to tell the children in the class, and I was sort of humiliated, you know. She used to say, You'll hear of Anton as a great artist—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Aw.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —one day. So, she—I used to do little party favors. All sorts of little things, you know, for her that she used to use at parties and do a little of this and a little of that. And I did enjoy it, I did enjoy it. But—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Then did you get into art classes in high school first?

ANTON BLAZEK:  No. You know, we didn't have very much of that then. We had a drawing class and we used to do little things in school, but not very much. But I did go to the Maryland Institute of Fine Arts and I started there. I think I was about 14 years old when I started there.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Excuse me, Mr. Blazek, I didn't understand where you were living. I have Chesapeake Bay, but—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Baltimore, Maryland.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, in Baltimore.

ANTON BLAZEK:  In Baltimore, uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. I interrupted you.

ANTON BLAZEK:  That's all right.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  You went to Maryland.

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, I did the interrupting I'm afraid. And so, this class at the Maryland Institute was very thrilling to me because I just began my formal education—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —you know, in—and, of course, all of us had to these casts of eyes and feet and ears and everything else—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  The academic—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —and they were very good. The academic—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —training.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Uh-huh [affirmative]. And then we, then we got to the figures, doing the figures and we started with charcoal, of course. And then we got to pastels and then pencil things and then other things later.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mr. Walters [ph], actually, was my instructor. And he was one of the first modern artists in—teaching there at the Institute and in fact he showed some of the very first modern work done in Baltimore. And he was very advanced. He was a wonderful person, very sensitive person.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Do you remember his first name?

ANTON BLAZEK:  I don't think I do at this moment.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Walters?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Walters, yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Was that a regular three- or four-year art school?

ANTON BLAZEK:  I did, I did—yes, I think it was, of course, but, you know, I didn't complete.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And I sort of resented, I guess, doing some of these figures and things. You know, I wanted to do things of my own, you know. And, of course, I suppose I was impatient.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Like sometimes we are. And I didn't really—I didn't really complete a formal course there.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  I've been mostly self-taught.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Although I've done a great deal of—I spent so much of my life in sketching from the nude.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Sketching still lifes, you see. But mostly—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  It certainly shows in your work, too.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, thank you.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Beautiful [inaudible].

ANTON BLAZEK:  But I did—I did love to do sketching and I thought that that was the most important thing, you know, to get, to get a feeling of the round form. You can transpose it then into anything. I mean it's a hill or a figure or an apple or anything, you know—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —no matter what it is. You could—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  As long as you know how it's formed.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  To get the feeling of the—so, I don't know. I suppose I've kind of been scatterbrained in a way. I had so many irons in the fire. I studied also at the Peabody Conservatory of Music. And at one time—

[00:10:14]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, really?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. I thought that I would be a pianist. But I was a perfectionist and when I heard [laughs] when I heard Paderewski play—and then, I was finished.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Aw. [They laugh.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  I thought I could never achieve that. Such perfection—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, that's very sad to have that result, hearing a wonderful concert.

ANTON BLAZEK:  But I will say this, I appreciated and—the music—and it has given me a great thrill. And, of course, when I do hear a performance or a performer, well I do—I do find great pleasure—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —and probably I judge maybe too severely. But I can tell immediately whether he's any good or not—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —after he strikes the first note or something. But I—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Do you still play for your own enjoyment?

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, not much. I did up until a few years ago, but—I did play a few things by memory, but I'm afraid that that's gone beyond me now. [Laughs.]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, if you came to California in 1930, you were 28, so—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —someplace before that you must have been working seriously, were you—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh yes, I—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —selling your paintings, or—?

ANTON BLAZEK:  That's right. I was selling—actually, I was doing commercial art for my brother who was in the—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —printing-advertising business. And I used to design some little folders for him. And then I, too—I used to do some artwork for some of the shops in Baltimore.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And, you know, art, of course, as, pure art, that was very hard to sell. And so, of course, I've had to depend on doing things more or less the—along the commercial line, you see. Although I did get a chance to work up and, of course, to try to experiment— begin experimenting on aluminum later. That was before we came to California. My brother, who was going to build an airplane, he started building the chassis at home, down in the basement, and—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  You must have had a busy basement with both [ph] airplanes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, I'm telling you.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Cabinet [ph] furniture. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. So, he had the sample of metals like aluminum and duralumin and so forth.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And I liked the—I liked the quality of aluminum. And it looked sort of silverish to me, you know, and I thought that I would like to develop a medium. And that's where I got started. The thought, the very germ of the idea started there, you see, where I saw this—these samples of metals and I was thrilled with them. And I thought that I could gradually develop it, use it as a medium. So, that's where I got the beginning of this. And of course, when I came to California, then I spent much more time in developing—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —aluminum, you see. And I didn't show it, of course, until three years later—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —in 1933. But I worked quite hard on that. And in addition, too, I still did some commercial work, also.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I see.

ANTON BLAZEK:  So—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, on the aluminum, you had worked out your own techniques for the fixative for the paints and—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —whatever you used on them, which is still a technical trade secret, because I asked you this without realizing this would happen.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, that's right.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  But it's very interesting, you—

ANTON BLAZEK:  But I think this—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —do not see it any place else. And it gives—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —a marvelous luminosity to the paintings.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, thank you. I believe maybe there are some examples now. Someone told me that someone did a large mural or something somewhere in New York or something, on metal. I don't remember whether it was aluminum or some other. But these things do get around. And of course that's the thrill of it, you know, when somebody gets an idea and the greatest thrill is if they will carry it well, in another angle, you see—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —and try to achieve something, not necessarily to copy—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —what you've done. Because, that is a shame, because, you know, these great artists like Michelangelo or da Vinci or any of these great artists, they have achieved something that we cannot surpass.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  So, we can go another avenue. But if we—if we do, of course, then we're fine. But if we worship that and feel that we want to copy it, well of course, that's just too bad for us because, you know, that—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —makes us copyists.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And there's no need for that. If an artist is going to do anything at all, why, he better learn right away that he has to be original.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And if he's going to do something that is going to live, well then, he'll have to actually work on his own and not to—not have the crutch to depend on, you see.

[00:15:06]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes. He has to say what he has to say.

ANTON BLAZEK:  What he has to say. Every artist has something to say.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  You could have 200 artists work on one same subject and you'd have—if they were all artists—you'd have 200 expressions—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —beautiful expressions. Each one—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  It's exciting, isn't it?

ANTON BLAZEK:  —yes, isn't it exciting?

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes, mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Very. Had you started any ceramics work this early?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, I did. I started, I think, in 1936, I believe. 1935—was it 1935 or 1936? Earlier, I imagine, in ceramics. Probably 1933, I believe. It was in 1933 that I started actually—in fact, I was working on a torso, I think. It was in 1932 or '33. And then I became interested, more interested in ceramics.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And, of course, I wasn't able to get right into it with a great deal of time. But later on, after I had worked out—see, during the War, I did work out for a number of years at the aircraft plants.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  I worked in war effort. And then, when I came out, then—it was about 1945 that I got my own equipment, and I was able to start from the raw materials. I mixed all my own clays and all my own glazes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, really?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. It was thrilling.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Did you have your own kiln?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Yes, I—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And you still do have, don't you, in Hollywood?

ANTON BLAZEK:  I still do have, mm-hmm [affirmative]. They've been idle now for a number of years, but the equipment is there. And I had—I had a fellow, showing him the studio, and this wasn't more than a year ago, and now it's just like a warehouse, stacked with, you know, junk, I guess you'd say. And I have to kind of walk in sidewards—[Betty Hoag McGlynn laughs.]—to really get in. And I showed this fellow this place and when we got out, you know, I felt that I should apologize for it. And I said, This is a nightmare, isn't it?  And he said, That ain't the word for it. [They laugh.]  So, you can imagine what it really looked like.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, I should add for the tape that Mr. Blazek is contemplating moving to the desert and so he's getting his things all together in one spot ready for the move. And I think that's always a nightmare for anyone.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh, it really is. Especially if you keep acquiring things, you know, you keep acquiring things and you have an idea in that moment, Well, now, I'm going to use that in such and such a thing, you know.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And you set it aside and you keep doing that, you know. And these things really pile up.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I know they do. Well, how did your family happen to come to Los Angeles?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, now, that's a very simple story, you know. The doctor—we had a wonderful doctor back in Baltimore and he loved—he would have loved to have come to California himself, but—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —of course his practice was there. But my mother used to feel rather sensitive to these sharp, severe winters—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —there in Baltimore.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And Dr. Viconek [ph] is the doctor. And I'll tell you how to spell that—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Is he a Czech, too?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, I'll tell you how to spell that—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Good.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —in a little while. And so, he said, you know, why—in fact, we were right there, I think, and he says to us, You better take your mother to California where she can live at least another 10 years. And of course, my mother was only in her 50s then, you know.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Good heavens.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And so, well, she lived—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Frightening thing to say to you.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —a ripe 33 years here in California.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Aw.

ANTON BLAZEK:  So, she went beyond the 10.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Isn't that great—

ANTON BLAZEK:  She had a wonderful life—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Good thing you came.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —out here, uh-huh [affirmative]. This climate did help her because it was, you know, it really was too severe for he—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —back in Baltimore.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  The winters were very severe.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, you get a cold chill on that bay, I guess—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I've heard talk about—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, it's raw.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —wind and—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. And, of course, when people are accustomed now—my mother was accustomed to living in rural parts. And when we came to this country, of course, my mother did have the responsibility to sell the house and the lands and the stock and everything, you see. And living outdoors like that, well, that's one way of living and a beautiful way of living. But then when you're sort of cooped up, you see, more and the climate is, you know, not very conducive to living outdoors, you know. During the winter you more or less have to live indoors.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Not very much outdoors.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  You're not getting any exercise—

ANTON BLAZEK:  No.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —when you've been used to it all of your life.

ANTON BLAZEK:  That's right. So, you're not—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Cross talk, inaudible.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  —as hardy.

[00:20:09]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  But my mother was always—I don't know, even that—at that, she was always a very hardy person.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  She'd love to get out in the garden and work and used to love to do this. And just to do things for herself. She never wanted to be a burden. Never. She was always very independent, you know. I have to admire her qualities, you know—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —and, of course, we probably inherited a little bit, I hope, of the independence and the self-sustaining quality. You know, the people there had to be self-sustaining—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —because they had to even weave some of their own materials, you know—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —for themselves, and so forth.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  They're famous for the beautiful—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —things they did. Yeah

ANTON BLAZEK:  Some of the things they did were very nice. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Isn't—did you know, Olinka Hrdy on the project?

ANTON BLAZEK:  I think I did.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Her family was from there, too.

ANTON BLAZEK:  I think I did.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  They settled in Minnesota.

ANTON BLAZEK:  She did a large thing. I think she called it—she learned to do—what was it? Synthetic painting? Or she had a formula or something like that. She said she did, you know—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  She's—

ANTON BLAZEK:  And she did inspire—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —done a great many things.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  She's an industrial designer today, too—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —but when she started out in school it was mainly because of the beautiful embroideries that she'd learned—

ANTON BLAZEK:  That she'd learned.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  That her mother had taught her.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. I believe it carried over in some of her work. It had—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  The feeling, definitely. Yet—

ANTON BLAZEK:  The feeling, mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —the designs themselves.

ANTON BLAZEK:  She had an all-over—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes. [Cross talk.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  —feeling, yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  To fill—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And it came out like Frank Lloyd Wright—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Same feeling.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Same feeling. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Which is strange.

ANTON BLAZEK:  For texture and—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  That's interesting. Well, let's see. Then, Mrs. May, were you along too when the family came out here?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh yes. She was right with us. Every moment of the time.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And you came to North Hollywood?

ANTON BLAZEK:  We moved to Los Angeles. And in 1939 we moved to the Valley.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I see.

ANTON BLAZEK:  1939 to 1940 actually, we moved to the Valley.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Which is part of Los Angeles, too, now.

ANTON BLAZEK:  It is part of Los Angeles, too.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  It didn't use to seem that way, did it?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, you know, it was—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  In that [inaudible].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —it was nothing but ranches when we came out, small five and 10 acre ranches, you know. We used to love to go and oh—we didn't have to go very far. We could buy a lug of peaches or this or that—That's not so—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Just amazing.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —anymore today, no.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Isn't it strange? Excuse me. [Recorder stops, restarts.] Mr. Blazek, we're going to jump to the Project period. You were on it from 1938 to '39. And sort of bring you up to date, you already have built your ceramic studio in the Valley and—

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, that came later.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, it did?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, that's right. I built the studio—I think, I built it in '45.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Uh-huh [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And from '45 on to—oh, for at least 12 years, I think, I worked about 50 percent of my time in my studio in ceramics. I did sketches for other work. But mostly sketches for future work.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Because I'd get these ideas and then I jotted them down. And I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of sketches that I want to—I want to carry out. And I—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Inaudible.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  —hope that I at least have four lifetimes—[They laugh.]—to be able to do it.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well so far, you say you haven't had time to get back to aluminum paintings at all.

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, I haven't been able to—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And probably not—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —get back to those.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —the easel work that you did.

ANTON BLAZEK:  No.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  The watercolors.

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, not very much because I have done very little experimentation. Well, getting back to the Art Project. I wasn't on the Art Project very long. In fact, I was on it probably less than six months, or—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  How did you get into it in the first place? [Cross talk.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  —something like that. Well, you know, I wanted to get into the Project earlier, actually. But I didn't really have time. I was doing some commercial work—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —in addition to carrying out my experimentation in aluminum. And I was doing—I was doing actually exhibitions. I had exhibited at many places, one-man exhibits. And I just didn't have time. But I loved, I loved the idea of being on the Project—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —because I thought, you know, that it would give me a little freedom and I would be able to do the things that I would like to do. And I did. I found that the Project was very interesting. A lot of very nice artists were able to get over their work and work in something that they loved. Otherwise, of course, if it hadn't been for the Project, why then, those artists probably would have had to be doing something else, you see—

[00:25:06]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —because art—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  If they could get anything else—

ANTON BLAZEK:  If they could get anything else, that's right.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —[laughs] at the time, yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And it was rather depressing in ways, I guess. Like everything like that, you know, it is at times. But on the whole, I found it interesting. I was engrossed in doing this large mural for the Grendol [ph] School that was to be carried out in either terrazzo, I believe, they were going to carry it out.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Petrachrome, I believe.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh, in tetrachrome.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  No—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Petrachrome.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Petrachrome, if Mr. Wright's—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mr. Wright's idea, yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —coin for it.

ANTON BLAZEK:  I see.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Uh-huh [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Then I think it boiled down to terrazzo, didn't it? It was more or less—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I don't know what happened. I wanted to ask you—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —about it. But—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, I think—[Cross talk.]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —it was actually built.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. I think—no it was, this was never built.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, it wasn't?

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, but it was approved actually.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Uh-huh [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And the—from the School Board. I think they came down with the—there was quite a few of the people and they were all well-satisfied. And they—I think they okayed it. And they liked the idea very much. And—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Pardon me. Did you submit this or did the Federal Arts Project submit the model to the school board for their approval? Is that, was that—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —the use of this model?

ANTON BLAZEK:  After—that's right. After I was able to do these little sketches and they applied them to this model. Why then, that's what they presented to the school board so they could get a more solid appearance, a more realistic appearance of what they would really look like, you see, on the face—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —of the building.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  We have a photograph of this which Mr. Blazek is going to loan us for microfilming. And it shows a little—a model, which was made by someone else on the Project. And on the facade, in three areas, there are the designs that he did. And on the steps and in front of it are very delightful little figures which were made by yet another person on the Project—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Another person, yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —whose name has been forgotten.

ANTON BLAZEK:  That's right.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And I hope you will be able to remember. I'd like to try to find that man. That would be interesting.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, I would love to find—I can't promise, but—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Maybe in the newspapers—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —he was—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —it'll tell about him.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Possibly.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Uh-huh [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  But he really was very good. He did these whimsical little figures, and he did them—oh, like a wisp. I mean, he could just throw them out so fast and he was just full of, full of life and—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Were they wooden?

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, they were made out of clay.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, I see.

ANTON BLAZEK:  They were probably still somewhat soft when he put them on there. They weren't fully hard yet. I mean that's how fast he could turn them out.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And the subject of your mural was I believe called A Romance of California, wasn't it?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, something like that. Uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Would you like to describe it, the—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —figures?

ANTON BLAZEK:  —I used the yellow and black gold theme for the—for the top mural, which showed the oil wells in the background and of course the panners that were digging for gold in the foreground. And on each side, I had the mission theme, which I have shown two missions on each panel. I've tried to be fair with the missions and start with the first one and go up north to one of the later ones. So, I've shown the San Diego, the San Gabriel, the Santa Barbara, and the San Carlos missions as a background.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, we must interject at this point that at the time you did this you were an authority on the missions of California because you'd done this beautiful series on aluminum of all 22 of our missions as interpreted catching the spirit of the mission, not particularly an architectural drawing as many artists had done before, but catching the spirit of each one of them. And you also are loaning us photographs which show those. And where were they exhibited? You told me a while ago.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, but first, thank you, Mrs. Hoag, that's very nice of you to say that. And it was a thrill. At the time I was working, I did read some of the authorities on the missions and it was most interesting. And I showed those first at the Assistance League in Hollywood.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  That was the first showing of them. I finished them up, I believe that was in 1935 or whereabouts, somewhere in there.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  They're probably about, what, two-by-four feet or—

ANTON BLAZEK:  They're about—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —two-by-three?

ANTON BLAZEK:  —16, they're about 16 by 24, I think, the frames—

[00:30:04]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —are approximately that large, 16 by 24.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And they were not a commission, they were just a—

ANTON BLAZEK:  They were just—yes, that's right. They were not a commission.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —work of love on your part?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Work—that's right. I always loved the missions, and I was trying to carry out something that I, you know, thought of for a couple of years. And so it was, it was so interesting to see these missions. And each one was a little jewel of its own, you know. Of course, so much of the architecture was Moorish. Because—and the soft roof lines and so forth, of the Moorish. You see that lent itself so much—so beautifully to California—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I didn't realize—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —architecture.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —that coming through Spain—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —and then Mexico, and then—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —up here. I didn't realize—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —they were a Moorish thing.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And so, I think that California has a great heritage in her missions.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, you still own all of those aluminum paintings. And I—as I was telling you a while ago—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —I think that they should be part of the California Historical Society or our new art museum, because they fit in both places really.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, thank you. Well, I would like to find a nice home for them sometimes. And I think that it would be a good idea. I do still own them and I thought—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, I'm going to ask around and see what we can do, because I think they should be—well, it's a shame that this Grendol [ph] School wasn't built either. I suppose the school couldn't match the money. I think that was the idea—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Perhaps.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —they had to put up part of the—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, perhaps that was the main idea that—[Cross talk.]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  It's always the money that governs everything, even though the spirit is willing, if the money is lacking—[Betty Hoag McGlynn laughs.]—well then—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  You can't go very far.

ANTON BLAZEK:  [Laughs.] You can't go very far.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I had a note on this that I wanted to get on the tape, too. The model that you made was a half-inch to a foot scale.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Which I—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —I think that's—mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  It says it on here, but I thought we should have that noted to go with it. You didn't do any other murals—

ANTON BLAZEK:  No other murals.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —designs.

ANTON BLAZEK:  No. I did some sketches for—I think for another project. And Mr. Feitelson, at the time, asked me if I would do some sketches. I think this was an interior of a library, I believe. And I was doing some research on that. And I made some quick sketches of this and I remember Mr. Feitelson turned to Mr. Wright, then he said, Gee, that reminds me of some of the ones that you did.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well [laughs].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Although I didn't see what Mr. Wright did. But I never heard—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Interesting.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —any more about that.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  But it was—it was interesting. These were just very fragmentary sketches but they had the essential idea, you know.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  The—this was, I believe, the history of paper and went into printing and so forth and so on.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And of course, it—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Of writing.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  That came out of petrachrome mural in the—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —someplace across town.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Not Santa Ana, but in—

[Cross talk.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  It might be that Mr. Wright did that. Now—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —I'm not familiar.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes, he did, finally—

ANTON BLAZEK:  He did? Finally do it.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —with several assistants on it. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  He did do very nice—I did, in fact, I saw an exhibition of Mr. Wright's at the museum here a number of years ago where he had completely reversed himself on the—his colors, you know, his feeling and attitude were all more or less oriental.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  They're—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Very oriental.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —very oriental.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And these things were completely apart from his oriental attitude, you know. And when I saw them, I was very thrilled with them because they had beautiful, soft colors, beautiful. And of course, they were more or less abstract in feeling—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —which was another departure—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —for Mr. Wright. And so, I was quite thrilled with them. In fact, we were studying at the time—my sister, we were studying this spiritual study, and we were talking of color, relating color to the spiritual worlds. And, in fact, I was reminded so much of the beautiful colors that Mr. Wright used in his work. I was reminded of the spiritual study, I thought, Oh, these beautiful, soft colors. So—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, I don't know whether you know or not, by Mr. Wright does spend half of his year, every year, in Japan in a Zen monastery in Kyoto.

ANTON BLAZEK:  He does? Well—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  He lives there.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —I know that he used to go there, but does he still go there?

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  He's been given a home there.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh, how nice.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And his wife is the only woman who—woman who's ever been in the monastery—

ANTON BLAZEK:  In the monastery.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —and of course she goes with him. And so, I'm sure that he is a very spiritual—

ANTON BLAZEK:  I believe he is, because—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —person and there's a great deal of oriental philosophy—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. No one—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —in his approach.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —no one could have been done those paintings that did not have a spiritual   you know, a feeling, an affinity for the spiritual worlds. Because it was something living. I mean you couldn't acquire it overnight.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  It had to take years and years, as it came on.

[00:35:24]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah. He's a really great person.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, he is. He's a great artist.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I don't know whether you remember it or not, but you must have been part of the easel project, on the Project too, because you had two of your studies of horses on aluminum in one of the shows in the Los Angeles museum.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Thank you, yes, I did. I had—I had this one particular one that I can remember very vividly is the one that I believe I called The Horse Race, or something like that.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And I imagined this, these horses were outside the barn and there was the heavy horse and the light, probably carriage horse or something and another intermediate horse—I don't remember whether there was three or four. But they were going to do this race, you know.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And I did—I did get a lot of pleasure out of doing that.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Did you do those—well you must have done those at home, because they took—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —a particular technique.

ANTON BLAZEK:  That's right.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, the artists were out. They'd go out on these projects and then they would bring their paintings in, you see. I believe they came in every week—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —then, to have their work re—evaluated, I think.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I see.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mr. Feitelson, of course, was the one that did most of that—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —at the time.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  He told me about that. Then you were part of some of these groups that came in and—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, no, I actually didn't go out with them. Now, some of them went on locations and some of them—most of them, probably—worked in their homes. But I worked at home and of course, so I did—I did—I brought this in during the stages as I was working on it.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And it was—I enjoyed it very much.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, were they evaluated by Mr. Feitelson? Is that what you meant? I didn't quite—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —understand what you—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —Mr. Feitelson of course would—he was very broad-minded in his criticism. And, although he never criticized anything that I did, probably what I did was a little apart from the regular oil paintings, you see. And so—but when artists did bring their work in, why, he would go over with them as far as color and design and after all, when you are working on an easel painting, you do have to incorporate some qualities in your work.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  You know, I mean, you do have to have a—you do have to have an object in mind.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Of course.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And it has to have some semblance of that. And so, it was refreshing to see these artists bring their things in. They—each one was so different from the other, you know. And just like they were coming in with smiling faces and—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes. Well, he's described the artists coming together and not defending their paintings but explaining their paintings to other artists—

ANTON BLAZEK:  To—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —who worked—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —in a different style. And it must have been a stimulating thing.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, it was, very stimulating. I used to watch Mr. Feitelson—I don't think he's on the television at the present time, but he did have a television series that he was on—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —a certain channel here in our area, Southern California area. And of course, he would go over some of these old masters and go over the rhythmic qualities—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —of the painting, what the artist had in mind. And the eye movement throughout the painting and so forth. And it was very interesting to hear him go over this. And of course, he was very conscious of every line.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  He was a very conscious artist of lines.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Marvelous draftsman.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, yes, he was.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Several artists have told me about those programs and said it was such a shame that they couldn't be shown again. And just recently, David Rose, who's art director for television station 28 and who helped with the art publicity, getting the programs ready, said that he understands that NBC is now ready to release these things. They're going to be used—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh, how nice.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —over again. So—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Over again.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —I was very happy to hear.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Very nice.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Hope I get to see them—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Very much.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —because I didn't know about them before.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, so many people that actually were just, oh, Sunday painters, you know—

[00:40:02]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —they would get a great deal from this. In fact, a number of them have asked me—like, this wasn't recently, but a number of years ago and they said, Oh, have you ever seen 'Mr. Feitelson on Art'?  I think the program was called Feitelson on Art.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes, it was. Ugh-huh [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. And they told me how much pleasure, you know— how much they got out of these programs. So, I know that many people that listened to them got a great deal from them. And I think they were an asset to the American scene.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, I think Mr. Feitelson must have been a great asset to the Project—

ANTON BLAZEK:  I think he was.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —after taping and talking to him several times—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —because he's a fine teacher—

ANTON BLAZEK:  He is—

[Cross talk.]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —and—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —very, very capable artist and a very capable critic. And the first time I met Mr. Feitelson was, I think, at the Los Angeles County Museum. That was in the very early '30s. I think that must have been in ‘31. And he was lecturing there. He did a series of lectures and I remember this particular one he was talking about the Sausage School of painters, you know—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Sausage School?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And what did he mean?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, you know, so many of these artists would say paint limbs, you know, and they would paint them almost like a column.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  You know, and they almost reminded you—of course and when you softened the corners and so forth—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  —it almost looked like extrusions of sausage—[They laugh.]—coming out of a machine, you know.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  That's a wonderful expression.

ANTON BLAZEK:  So, he was, he was very capable of delineating all those qualities in paintings. He did do some very fine figure studies on his own, and I think that's where his love was, for the figure, for the human figure—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —and the human face. And I think he was very good at it.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  He has a tremendous collection of drawings of people like Tintoretto—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —of his own. And I'm sure that—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —he's done a lot of studying.

ANTON BLAZEK:  You know, since you mentioned that name, this study that we have studied—the spiritual study, and of course, you're familiar with the Kabbalah, they call it, you know, where you have had these previous lives, you know?

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  In Indian philosophy?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, uh-huh [affirmative]. You have lived—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —certain lives, you know. And so, this Ann Ree that we were talking about a little while ago, that's the only previous body she told me that I had. She said, You were Tintoretto in a previous life.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Hm.

ANTON BLAZEK:  But you've had many other lives since. And she said that I was some doctor in somewhere. And some—of course, you know sometimes people think you're a little queer, you know, when you say things like that because they don't believe in—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —reembodilatory [ph] incarnation. But we do believe in it.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And I'm sure you do, too.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And, so, it's a very interesting study.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, I know it is.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. The background, I think, for Ann Ree's work—I think she was—well, it reminds me of theosophy.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And through that, you see, they believe that we have three—of course, Ann Ree feels that we have four bodies—physical body and the emotional body and the mental body and the theory body.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Ann Ree—is that how—A-N—?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. A-N-N, Ann, and R, capital R, double-e, Ree, and Colton. C-O-L-T-O-N.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And she's the woman whose terra cotta head—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, that's right.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —you brought to show me.

ANTON BLAZEK:  She's the one that I—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Your lovely—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —brought over.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, I—not directly associating with other lives, I mean, not meaning it that way, but a while ago you were telling me about David Edstrom—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —who was a wonderful sculptor on the Project.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, he was.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And he died several years ago and there don't seem to be very many people who remember much about him. And I wondered if you would tell us again, since he was a good friend of yours, some of the interesting things you told me.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, we first met Mr. Edstrom—he was giving a series of lectures on the Project. And he was giving these lectures at the City College on Fremont [ph]. Actually—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  You mean he was giving them for the Project to the public—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, to the public, yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I didn't know they had lectures.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. And—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, that's very interesting.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —I remember, I met Mr. Neutra there one evening—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —Richard—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  My husband studied with him. Richard Neutra.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Uh-huh [affirmative]. Richard Neutra, uh-huh [affirmative]. And so, he would more or less go over some of the—some of the art of—the previous art and so forth that he did. But we had him at the house a couple of times, and he was a very sensitive artist.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  A very sensitive artist. And, of course, he lived most of his life in Europe. And then he did quite a few commissions over there. And then he came to America, different times. He was actually an American by birth. He was born—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, I didn't know that.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. He was born here in America and he went to Europe.

[00:45:15]

[END OF TRACK AAA_blazek65_25_m.]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  This is Betty Lochrie Hoag on April 13, 1965, interviewing Anton Blazek. And this is tape two. We were right in the middle of talking about David Edstrom. And you just told me he was born in California and gone to Europe—

ANTON BLAZEK:  No—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Inaudible.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  —he was born here in America—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, in America?

ANTON BLAZEK:  —I think—yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Somewhere in the Middle West, I believe.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I see. And then gone to Europe where—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Then gone to Europe.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —he became well-known—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —and came back here. And just so the tape will know what we're talking about, he's the man who did the cast-stone statue of Florence Nightingale in Lincoln Park on the Project.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And whom Buckley Mac-Gurrin talks about. And his book, you were starting to tell me about, was called The Enigma of Edstrom.

ANTON BLAZEK:  I think it was called the—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh no.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —The Testament of Caliban, I believe.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Right. I was reading—

ANTON BLAZEK:  But he may have—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —no, I was reading an article—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:   —about him here. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  About him. He may have written—he may have written another book, but I don't think I'm familiar with if there was another one right now.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  No, you're right. I mean, that was just an article that told about him.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, he was a very sensitive artist and he worked—he worked mostly in Europe. And he was on commissions. He had a patron, of course, that made it more or less very easy for Mr. Edstrom to do the things that he loved, because he—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  What country was this, was he in? Do you remember? Was it Sweden where the patron was?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Do you remember [inaudible]? Thiel, was it? Thiel? I think it was Mr. Thiel, I believe—if it comes to me, the name Thiel, I believe, was his patron.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  The Thiel was—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Thiel.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —I mean, Mr. Theil lived here, then, he wasn't a European.

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, he lived over there, in Europe.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  In Europe. Oh.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, I believe it's T-H-I-E-L. Something like that. Dr. Thiel, he may have been a doctor, but I'm not positive. But he was able to devote his time to do the things that he loved, you see. That way—having a patron of course, that's greatly to an artist's advantage.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Because you find that sometimes looking for commissions and actually getting them, why, is not always an easy thing. Because commissions—art commissions like that, run into money. And of course, it's very nice to talk about something like that, but it's so different when you get to talk about the money part of it, you see.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  That is when people sometimes scare off, you see.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Especially in monumental sculpture, I would think.

ANTON BLAZEK:  That's right, yes. [Betty Hoag McGlynn laughs.] That's right, that runs into thousands and thousands of dollars. So, he did, he found it—he loved America. And of course, he came back and forth, I suppose, a number of times from Europe to America. And I had the pleasure of meeting him and— with my family, we had him in the home. So, he did—he did some very fine lecturing here in America. He was able to give the—to depart to people some of the qualities and contrasts of the Old Europe with the New America. And inasmuch as, of course, he had the advantage of being in Europe in its heyday possibly. He came to America and of course when he, when he had lived here for a short period of time, he had no real commissions and so forth. So, the Art Project I think was his most important crutch.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And I remember when he said this to us, we were sitting around the table, I think at home, and he said, You know, I find that my most exciting time was when I didn't know where my next meal was coming from.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  So, for an artist to—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —to feel that way, you see. And I think he must have lulled in luxury so much that he was, he sort of came back to home, or something, you know and—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, it's almost the attitude of a youth, not of an old man—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —isn't it?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. That's right. Uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Strange.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. And when he died, he really wasn't an old man yet—would you say? Would you say he was about in his early 60s when he died?

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, I supposed he was in his late 80s or 90s—

ANTON BLAZEK:  No.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I didn't realize that.

[00:05:02]

ANTON BLAZEK:  No. Unh-uh [negative]. No, he was—I think, while his age may have deceived him, he didn't look any older than in his 60s when we last saw him. And of course, he died soon after we [inaudible]—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Was he ill or—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. I believe he died of pneumonia or something like that. I wouldn't be positive of that. But it seems to me—you see, now, artists sometimes neglect themselves—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —you see. They're working and often they don't even think of their bodily needs. Maybe he was working in the studio, maybe the studio was cold, and he wasn't really dressed warmly enough, you see. So, I believe that a lot of us are neglecting—neglectful that way, because we are in the midst of something and we can't be bothered—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —thinking of this or that.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Laughs.] I've observed that. [They laugh.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Well, I know sometimes when I was working out in the studio, my folks had to call me five and six and seven times. We had a connection to the telephone—I had an extension out there and I know they would call me sometimes that many times. And they said, Well, you know, it's time to eat—[Betty Hoag McGlynn laughs.]—we have it all ready for you. And then I was in the midst of doing something and I couldn't come. So, I know—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  My mother lives on crackers and milk for lunch unless somebody else is around and does something about it. Which is nothing for a working person all day long. You were conjecturing about what happened to his tools after—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —he passed away. You said they were such beautiful European tools.

ANTON BLAZEK:  That's right. They were beautiful tools, and he had a wonderful assortment of everything that an artist would need, a sculptor would need. And when he died, I don't remember—he lived in a small studio. He lived—probably had a studio right in his home. I was never at his home, so I don't know exactly what studio, what sort of a studio he did have. But I know it wasn't a large studio; it was a small, modest studio. And of course, when he died, I don't remember who was lucky enough to get his tools—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —because it's a shame to have to say something like that, you know, that it takes an artist to die for someone to be able to get his tools.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  I mean that, you know, is rather a hard way to look at it. But I never desired anybody's tools. But I mean, I think it was a thrill. It would have been a thrill to me to have owned something like that, you see, that a great sculptor had used.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, it would be the same thing as having a violin that has been used—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —by other people, too.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. That probably would be similar.

ANTON BLAZEK:  I didn't look at it that way, but since you said it, why, I think you're right.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Well, I think tools are—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Tools are very similar, mm-hmm [affirmative]. A violin is an artist's tool just as anything else would be a tool.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Speaking of what happens to things, did you ever find out where you—the paintings that you did on the project went?

ANTON BLAZEK:  I don't—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Nobody else knows, either, but I just thought—

ANTON BLAZEK:  No.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —might have remembered what schools or—

[Cross talk.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, I remember—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —public buildings they went into.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —I remember that this one was supposed to have been in the exhibit at the San Francisco Fair in 1939, but, actually, I didn't see it. We didn't get to that building, I guess. We weren't able to see the Fair thoroughly [inaudible]. We had been to the New York World Fair and then to the San Francisco Fair on our way back. But I don't remember—it seems to me I heard something that they had some sort of a fire in some—one of the buildings.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  So, it may have been that it was destroyed. But I don't know that for sure either.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. I—[coughs]—excuse me. I understand—someone gave me a copy of the Christian Science Monitor from a few weeks ago and there was an interesting article saying that the government is trying to locate the Federal Arts Project—

ANTON BLAZEK:  The Project—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —paintings, which are—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —hidden around in different places.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Well, that would be nice because I think, possibly, they'll be able to locate a lot of them. I'm sure there are a lot of people that would be very happy to, you know, have them.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Maybe they're more or less feeling they're in safekeeping until—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, they belong to the government—

ANTON BLAZEK:  They belong to government, yes, they were done—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —for 99 years.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, that's right. Uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  So, the government suddenly realizes there were a lot of wonderful paintings which just were put away in attics—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Put away, mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —or taken home—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Taken home—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —or things that happen.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  But some of them are really valuable, you know. In fact, President Johnson's daughter has picked out one of them to have hung in her bedroom. It was the picture—I think it was a Stuart Davis painting—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —I believe. Someone like that. [Inaudible.]

[00:10:13]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, that would be nice, sometime, to see all these various paintings that the artists did. And I certainly hope that most of them are located.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I hope so too. I hope I can help them in this area, I'd certainly like to. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, I'm sure that if anything can be done, that you'll leave no stone unturned.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Laughs.] Well, if I have a go-ahead, I certainly would have fun looking. Are there any things about the Project that you can remember that would be interesting to know about for the tape? You weren't there too long, but I wondered if you remembered—

ANTON BLAZEK:  I wasn't there—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —any of the people or events that throw light on it?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, I remember Mr. Lemmon, I believe. He was—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, Warren Lemmon. Is he still around? I can't find him.

ANTON BLAZEK:  I don't know. But the name came to me and I'm sure—and you mentioned, so that you verified the names—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —so I'm sure that—and he was compiling, I imagine, the—oh, the old Americana, I guess. The feeling of the—some of the earlier works that were done in America and some of the American arts. And I think he either compiled the early American furniture, I believe. He may have. I wouldn't want to—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —say for sure, but—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I think he was doing this for the Index of American Design—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. I believe—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —and the Santa Barbara—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —that was the title.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —mission pictures.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And the Archives wrote and told me to see him, said he was down here. And I found a Warren A. Lemmon and a Warren C. Lemmon and they're both down in Long Beach. And I just—I'm hoping somebody—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Have you heard from them yet?

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —knows.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Have you heard from them?

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  No.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Have you contacted them yet?

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  No—

ANTON BLAZEK:  No.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —I thought I'd just telephone both these men—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Both of them, yes, uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —to see if—because I don't know his middle initial and no one else seems to—

ANTON BLAZEK:  I don't know either—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —know it either.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —at this time. But he was rather thin man, tall, thin man. He had a rather thin face, and he was a very nice person, very nice person. Very active and very interested in the things that he was doing. And they meant a great deal to him, I know.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, I hope we can find him. See, I have a—I have his name Warren W. Lemmon.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And the only two Lemmons in all of the Los Angeles area have different initials in the middle. So, they may be—

ANTON BLAZEK:  And what's the other name? Warren and the other is—? You have Warren, and what is the other first name?

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  No, they're both Warren.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh, they're both Warren.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  The man's name that we're hunting for—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —is Warren W. Lemmon.

ANTON BLAZEK:  I was going to say, the name—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And I have—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —Warren, it strikes a chord. It seems to me his name was Warren, now.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  That was his name, but you see—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —the other two Warrens in the phonebook are Warren Lemmons—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —too. But they have different initials.

ANTON BLAZEK:  I see. Different initials, different middle initials.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  But one of them may turn out to be a son.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, I hope that he does turn out—turn up.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  It's practically an FBI job, you know—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —to find some of these people. It's just fascinating. [Laughs.]  I get strange directions for somebody on a small road, you turn at the gas station on the road that goes from Ventura to Los Angeles and go left towards the ocean. He's someplace out there.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Out there.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And I dutifully looked through all the phonebooks and asked around in the area, and I finally found—but he had been out there all right. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh, been out there but you weren't fast enough for him, were you? [Laughs.]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  No, he'd now gone up to Big Sur.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh, geez.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  This was a—not George Stanley, one of the other sculptors that you probably knew on the project. Oh, what a shame, his name is gone and there's too many of them. [Tape stops, restarts.]  Mrs. May, you just mentioned that Mr. Blazek, your brother, had worked on some papier-mâché plates on the Project, is that right, or—

ANTOINETTE BLAZEK MAY:  [Inaudible] of the man that worked on the project with my brother.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh.

ANTOINETTE BLAZEK MAY:  And we found him so interesting [inaudible], but I don't remember the name.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, in fact, the young man that was—the young man that was doing that, of course, on the project, the young man that you're referring to, he was my assistant on the project. And he was helping me with this mural. And I was enlarging the mural at the time and I enlarged it, all the large sheets were all brought up to the full size, you see.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, really?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Uh-huh [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, you'd gone a long way on that—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, I did.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —cartoon before they cancelled.

ANTON BLAZEK:  That's right. The cartoon, I couldn't think of the word but there you brought it forth. And I did. I was able to do the whole cartoon for the—for the three large pieces that were going to be the mural.

[00:15:06]

And I'm trying to think of this young man's name. It began with a B. And I can't for myself think of his name. But his father, I believe, was working at the time on this twisted crepe paper, sort of rattan, and he'd twist it. He'd have a motor and twist this crepe paper. He'd cut it up in strips and then twist it. It made a very firm—almost like a little chord. And then he would take—he would take and work on the back of a bowl that would be his model. And with glue he would start a circle and he would make this—and start twisting this material around the shape of this bowl. And then, of course when he was finished, the work would stand on its own.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, this is like Mexican work, isn't it?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Something like—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  They use—

ANTON BLAZEK:  And—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —something like that.

ANTON BLAZEK:  That's right. And I've seen some work like that actually, similar to that. But I had never seen anyone work just in that very medium.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Would it have been Fred Bessinger?

ANTON BLAZEK:  No.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Or Frank Bauers [ph]? I'm looking in my Bs to see—

ANTON BLAZEK:  No. He had a longer name. His name had at least six letters, six, seven letters to it.

ANTOINETTE BLAZEK MAY:  You liked working with him—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

ANTOINETTE BLAZEK MAY:  —very much.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

ANTOINETTE BLAZEK MAY:  He was very nice.

ANTON BLAZEK:  He was very nice. We used to sit outside lunchtime, sit in the car. And we used to talk over art, things like that.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mr. Blazek, maybe you'll remember his name later and if you do, I'd appreciate knowing it and I can tell the tape they can—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, I think—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —put his name with what you told me about.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —with what I said, yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  I know that he did—he studied in New York, I know. And—he studied art in New York. And he was a very nice young man. And he was very much in art. And he was very happy to be able to work in art on the Project, you see. Otherwise, he probably wouldn't have had a chance to express himself. By the way, a name does come to me, and I guess I just forgot it for the moment—oh, McIntosh [ph]. You know, this—I believe, not Frank McIntosh [ph] but the other, the other brother, McIntosh [ph]. He—I don't know whether he was on the Project, but he was one that knew this young fellow. And I can probably make a contact with Mr. McIntosh [ph].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh.

ANTON BLAZEK:  I think he's teaching in Claremont now, I believe, McIntosh [ph], and doing ceramics. And you probably have seen his ceramics. He's done quite a lot of very nice ceramic things. Trying to think of this—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  In Claremont?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. I'm trying to think—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  I have—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —of his name.

ANTON BLAZEK:  But I'm sure that he would be able to—because he did know him, you see. And he worked for the, I believe it was called at the time The Louvre. That was the art supplies. We used to go there and buy art supplies. That was on Seventh Street, right up the street from the old project.

ANTON BLAZEK:  The old project was located—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —right across—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Near the park there?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Right across from the—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —Westside Park. Uh-huh [affirmative]. And so, then we'd walk up the street and—he worked, this Mr. McIntosh [ph] at the time, he worked at this art shop. And I don't know whether he was carving frames, or he was doing something. But he would do anything so long as he could be working in any part of art, you know.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  So many of the boys would really do most anything to be able to work in that, you see, because right at the time, why, there wasn't so much opportunity—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —for them, you see. And jobs of that sort were far and in-between.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. I understood from one of the newspapers I was reading yesterday—a newspaper of that time—that they even had a frame-maker on the Project.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, I believe they did. [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Which was interesting, I hadn't realized that.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And yes, now that you bring it up, I think that he was a very good carver.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  He'd be able to do a very nice job carving—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Is this McIntosh [ph] you mean? Or this fellow who was helping you?

ANTON BLAZEK:  No. I don't know. I don't know who the frame-maker was. I don't remember his name, but I don't believe it was McIntosh [ph]. McIntosh [ph] was doing that for the—for the art supply store, The Louvre, I think.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Inaudible.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, uh-huh [affirmative]. I believe he was working on that and I don't remember. At least he wasn't on the Project—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —at the time that I was on the Project. So, he may have been on later.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, I have to go over to Claremont anyway and I'll be in the area [inaudible]—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —and I'll look him up—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Why don't you look him up and ask him if he remembers who this artist was that he and I went with him. We walked up the street at the time and we walked into The Louvre with him. He worked there. And this young fellow, whose name begins with a B—[Betty Hoag McGlynn laughs.]—like my own. And to save my life I can't think of his name right now and I should know it. But I'll look it up and I'm sure that between your trying to find it—[Betty Hoag McGlynn laughs.]—and I'll try to find it, why certainly something should turn up.

[00:20:34]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Inaudible] go through my Bs tonight. I probably have around 30 of them here and find the one—

ANTON BLAZEK:  You have quite a—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —who was a sculptor—

ANTON BLAZEK:  You have quite a few. Would you want me to look through some of those?

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, fine. [Tape stops, restarts.]  Eureka. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Eureka.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mr. Blazek has hunted through all the Bs in my files and come up with the assistant's name which is Wilbur Broderick, spelled B-R-O-D-E-R-I-C-K. Thank you so much for doing that. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Thank you. He was—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  It's nice to put a tail on the dog, as it were.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, yes. I knew that if I had waited long enough it probably would have come to me, but goodness knows how long we would have waited. Like this at least we were able to have something real to look into. I remember Wilbur. He was a very intent young man. And he liked working in art. And we would discuss art. In fact, we went out during lunchtime and sat in the car and discussing art—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

[Increasingly loud squealing sound in recording from this point forward.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  And of course, he and I worked together. He was—he was my assistant in this project, in this mural project. And he was a very fine person. Now, he did everything that he possibly could to help me, you know. And I appreciated that very much.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Did he go on with his artwork, do you know? Did you ever hear anything more about him?

ANTON BLAZEK:  You know, I don't remember. I don't remember. You know, we moved after that, after we came back from the [inaudible], we moved to the Valley.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And then I lost track of Wilbur. And I meant to—I meant to call him, too, because I wanted him—I had this little open house in my studio when I finished setting up my house. I didn't really build the house, like with the brick and all. I did all the woodwork in there, but I had my own bricklayers and my own plumber and electrician and so forth. And then I wanted to get in touch with many of the artists. I did get in touch with Glen Newsome [ph], I had some of his nice [ph] things out in the studio. And I don't know whether Glen [ph] is still living or not.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Inaudible].

ANTON BLAZEK:  So, I wanted to get—I wanted to get some of the artists' work, artists that I had known. And I did get a few of them out in my studio. And I had them on display. And I had quite a—I had quite a number of people when we put this—when we moved to the Valley, my—she ran out, we would say, way out into the sticks, wasn't it? And so, I [inaudible] build this house and I had the studio. [Inaudible.] And so, I had never fairly completed everything. I didn't even get a chance to complete the lighting fixtures. And quite a number of the things, I suppose. But then, you know, we always feel if you complete a thing why—well, it's already dead.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yes, it's true.

ANTON BLAZEK:  So, if we leave a few things to be finished, why, we always still look forward to being able to finish it yet, you see. And it's always sort of new to us.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Something to wake up for in the morning.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Something to wake up for in the morning.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Uh-huh [affirmative]. And I did have, I did have a number of artists work in my studio in addition to my own, and I was the chairman for North Hollywood the National Art Week, that was in 1941, fall of 1941. And of course, it's a shame that they no longer have the National Art Week.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  But I remember I went down to pay the water bill and I had the posters. I had the responsibility of placing some of the posters that they had left with me, to advertise the National Art Week. And of course, when I came down to the Water and Power Department on [inaudible] Boulevard, why they didn't know whether they would want to show that, you know. And they don't go in for advertising. I said, Well, this is not advertising, this is part of the government—

[00:25:18]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Which is you.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —actually. This is you, yes. And so, I believe they did finally get to place it somewhere.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  You know, that was the creation of President Roosevelt, did you know that?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Do you still have the posters at all?

ANTON BLAZEK:  I don't think I do. No, I believe I distributed them all. And then of course they were more or less thrown away. But I really should've—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, they were?

ANTON BLAZEK:  —kept one.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  What a shame.

ANTON BLAZEK:  It is a shame. Uh-huh [affirmative]. I'm sorry I didn't keep one before—you know, but I wanted everybody that I could possibly, you know, notify—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Interest in—

ANTON BLAZEK:  —[and I won't accept defeat (ph)], so of course, I was anxious to get every one out in circulation.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah. You weren't thinking of the posters per se.

ANTON BLAZEK:  No.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Yeah.

ANTON BLAZEK:  But that would have been a nice thing to keep. I know a person doesn't look ahead that far sometimes, because you don't keep these things for that purpose because they do become very important later on as well, steps in our—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Inaudible] in our cultural development.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Development, mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, while we had the tape turned off, I thought of something we'd forgotten about on the Project. And I wish you would now [inaudible]—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Oh, yeah.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —project.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Ah. I, just before I left the project in '39, why, I was preparing my lithograph, my stone, my lithographic stone.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Now this would have been at the center?

ANTON BLAZEK:  That would have been at the center on Seventh Street, uh-huh [affirmative]. And I did, I worked on it. And, of course, you do have to work on these and resurface [ph] them you see, so you can—of course those has, I think it has to have a tooth. And so they were—I was going to, I was going to do a lithograph on this. And I was so very disappointed that I wasn't able to because the time came, and we had to leave for the East because—on account of my brother. We wanted to see him. And he wasn't altogether well then. And so, we did actually go and then I never did get back to the project—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  What a shame.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —and I'm sorry that I didn't really get a chance to complete my project because I felt sort of cheated. And because I had prepared this stone for myself to work on and at least I hope that somebody did a nice lithograph. Used my—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  You never knew.

ANTON BLAZEK:  I never knew who had it.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  That must have been—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Had grabbed it.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —one of the most interesting groups to work with. Everyone—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, it was.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —who was on it—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, the men that were working—[Cross talk.]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —a great pleasure.

ANTON BLAZEK:  —on the press—yes, it was. The men that were working on the press, oh, they got a great deal of pleasure from their work. And they all were, oh, I don't know, they were—yes. They were so cooperative in every way. And that's such a nice feeling.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Everyone had such a nice feeling, you know. It was like a—it was like a large family.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Well, that leads me up to the question I always like to ask before we finish the tape about what they feel in general the value of the Federal Arts Project was to art in America and to individual artists? That aspect of it seems to be very plain [inaudible]—

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —[Inaudible.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, I think that anything—of course, in many other countries had done things like this long before they were done in America.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And still are, I might add.

ANTON BLAZEK:  And still are.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And we're not. [Laughs.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  That's right. We're not. Yes. Well, now, of course some people condemn something like that because they feel that artists should be completely on their own and should be completely independent of any responsibility of any kind. But I feel that anything that's done where an artist can work and produce his creation, no matter what it is, where he wouldn't be able to do it otherwise, I think is a wonderful thing.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  And I think the Federal Arts Project helped in many ways to help us along, help an artist actually be able to create and work in that world that he was actually made to work in. The world of art.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Well, you didn't have any dictations on your subject matter or—

ANTON BLAZEK:  No. None whatsoever.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —of any of these things.

ANTON BLAZEK:  No. None whatsoever.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  How about the mural? Was that—

ANTON BLAZEK:  No. That was—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —subject to your own [inaudible]?

[00:30:00]

ANTON BLAZEK:  That was, that's right. Every bit of the design was done by me and there wasn't any—actually no criticism and there weren't any suggestions, that I remember, that were made. Because, well, lots of times, you know, when you would be working on and as you work, while you find little things that we change as we go along, little things maybe just like in writing, you see, feel that maybe you could express better. Well, that's what happens. Actually, I think that happens in every form of the artist's work. And they're their own best critic because an artist has to be his own critic. Because if he isn't, why, well, he isn't an artist—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  —actually. So, I feel that the art project, the Federal Arts Project was a very fine thing in many ways. It helped, also, the public be aware more of art where at least they did have a number of exhibits of work done on the project. And people would go and be familiar with some of the things that were done. And at least that helped people to become familiar with art where maybe they didn't have much familiarity with it before then.

And I think that, to continue it further, I think that all the exposure that we had by the radio and, of course, pictorially by television, I think that has all helped the American public to appreciate art. Many of them now have artworks in their homes, if they can afford it. But the painting at least they can afford reproductions, they can afford original prints, and they can afford so many things that they were not able to afford. And so, I think anything that exposes art, I think, is a very important thing.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  And you would of course agree with the thing that I've come up with doing Federal Arts Project [inaudible]—

ANTON BLAZEK:  I think so.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —cultural heritage that we had. [Inaudible]—

ANTON BLAZEK:  I'm in—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  —generating this thing [inaudible].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. I'm in complete agreement with you on that because I think that the Project—that it did accomplish that, because, after all, every country does have a heritage of its own in the world of art and I think that America is one of the greatest countries in the world, it's one of the greatest countries ever, actually, in existence. I think that art in our country was neglected, for a long time. And we think that it has gradually been able to take its place in the world of art, America has. And I think the Federal Arts Project was also greatly responsible for helping this along.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  It certainly is [inaudible] created this thing [inaudible] what we have and [inaudible] had to go through, to make it known too.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. That's true, that's true. Thank you. And it was a pleasure to come into your home, a home that's full of beautiful works of art that even [inaudible] has so much to give to the art world. Your mother, beautiful, I've seen a number of beautiful examples of her work. And I think that that actually makes you very proud of being in this world of art.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  You know, I want—I hate to have one dangling question that I couldn't get in that I must get on the tape. You mentioned teaching, [inaudible], have you been teacher?

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  At all? Just for the record.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Yes.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Right.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Privately, I taught privately for three years, my sister helped me, we taught creativity at the center.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh. [Inaudible.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  [Inaudible.]

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Inaudible.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  Ann Ree Colton Foundation of [inaudible].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Inaudible.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  No, Ann Ree.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Ann—

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Oh, I see.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes. Ann Ree Colton.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Inaudible.]

ANTON BLAZEK:  And because [inaudible] there, we had women and a couple of men and children interviewed [ph] and a very, very nice time that we all had. And so many of them didn't realize that they had any talents.

[00:35:01]

Some would say, Oh, I can't do anything. My goodness. Don't [inaudible]. And really, they thought that they had no talent whatsoever. I mean, really some of these things that they would do [inaudible], desires that they had started opening up.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Would flow out.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Would flow out. Yes. And then, of course, you know, that was a that was a wonderful thing for them too, because, you see, they were particularly frustrated there, maybe not being able to express that [inaudible]. And when we came along and gave them the opportunity to express that as [inaudible] why, that would be a very wonderful thing.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

ANTON BLAZEK:  But Ann Ree always said that the arts, the creativity, played, well, one of the most important parts in [inaudible].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  [Inaudible] in Los Angeles

ANTON BLAZEK:  Yes, it's in Glendale.

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  In Glendale.

ANTON BLAZEK:  Mm-hmm [affirmative].

BETTY HOAG MCGLYNN:  Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Well, I thank you so very much [inaudible].

ANTON BLAZEK:  Well, I thank you. It was a great pleasure.

[END OF TRACK AAA_blazek65_26_m.]

[END OF INTERVIEW.]